General Discussion & Off-Topic

Re: Stereoscopic 3D...do we care?

berga — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 10:51:17 GMT

I just read this press release from Panny. Maybe Avid konw that they are doing?

Re: Stereoscopic 3D...do we care?

TrevorA — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 21:30:26 GMT

Kenton.VanNatten:

Well clearly they added some kind of functionality there in 3.5 because Michael Phillips was presenting his film and touting the new Surround Sound mix feature. And the developer that was primarily responsible for it was on hand as well.

Not sure it's that clear to me. AIUI there is a 'surround output' setting which sends LfRf -1&2, C & LFE to 3&4 and LsRs to 5&6. Easily acheived with Direct Outs on any 888 box since dinosaurs roamed the earth.

I don't believe (and no-one is chipping in otherwise) that I can surround pan a mono clip, or a stereo clip or a 5.1 clip. Not sure how they define LfRf for example, but I would assume that it would be mono timeline tracks !&2, 9&10 etc...

Not sure there is any added functionality AT ALL.

But very happy to be corrected...

Re: Stereoscopic 3D...do we care?

switthaus — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 13:45:32 GMT

You are so right. I was there and at other Sunday, pre-show events for Apple and it's like a rock concert. It was great corporate theater. If Jobs would have come out on stage, they would have had to call in riot police for security. Counter that to watching David Krall wander around the Avid booth all alone gazing whistfully at the Apple crowd just across the aisle (when Avid and Apple were side by side). Amazing difference and clear example of why Apple wins the PR battle every time.

Re: Stereoscopic 3D...do we care?

TCurren — Thu, 09 Apr 2009 13:31:52 GMT

switthaus:
Those who read more into it (or less in this case) get what they deserve, I guess.

Here's an example. A few years back at one of the big Apple NAB events, they announced Multi Group editing. The room (3,000 people) came out of their chairs cheering. You would think Apple invented this by the reaction, and many did believe just that.

This is a shining example of the difference between the two companies marketing teams. Avid's press events are boring presentations with a group of jaded press members. Apple stacks the deck by bringing in 3,000 zealots and putting on an excellent show. There is no way the press can remain unaffected by the pure energy in that room. And they walk out of that event thinking Apple really has something special. Of course they do, it's called marketing genius.

Now, the Avid marketing folks would probably tell you that is because Apple users are zealots, and Avid users aren't. But those of us who frequent these boards know that isn't true. As a matter of fact, no less than Kirk Arnold stated at an event that she and Gary are amazed at the conviction of many of us Avid users. Since she and Gary come from a different world, they are not used to seeing this level of support and interaction from the user base.

I know some of the marketing folks have turned over, and hopefully the new crew have some different ideas, but the fact remains that when a new release comes out like 3.5, with AMA which is a major step over the importing that has to be done in FCP, the word just doesn't get out. Apple would have the post world in a tizzy over this.

Re: Stereoscopic 3D...do we care?

switthaus — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 22:43:20 GMT

Kenton.VanNatten:

Andrew's point is fully exemplified by me.... I admit when I first read it thought "That's not true! Avid had 3D Stereoscopic editing capability" Then I read it again and said "oh... for FCP users"

Exactly. Maybe Avid should hire these PR guys to write their press releases. Those of us that know take it at face value. Those who read more into it (or less in this case) get what they deserve, I guess. No biggie. Again, I would rather have a mac version of metafuze for the red workflow rather than stereoscopic....

Re: Stereoscopic 3D...do we care?

Kenton.VanNatten — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 22:35:31 GMT

TrevorA:

Kenton.VanNatten:

It exists in 3.5, I saw a presentation of a film in March at the Boston Avid User Group meeting and it was played out via NitrisDX with Surround Sound.

Which I could do with direct outs on a Meridien Symphony. I don't see that 3.5 has changed anything much there.

Well clearly they added some kind of functionality there in 3.5 because Michael Phillips was presenting his film and touting the new Surround Sound mix feature. And the developer that was primarily responsible for it was on hand as well.

Re: Stereoscopic 3D...do we care?

TrevorA — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 21:46:25 GMT

Kenton.VanNatten:

It exists in 3.5, I saw a presentation of a film in March at the Boston Avid User Group meeting and it was played out via NitrisDX with Surround Sound.

Which I could do with direct outs on a Meridien Symphony. I don't see that 3.5 has changed anything much there.

Terry's point about the NAB press release could be more promising.

Re: Stereoscopic 3D...do we care?

Kenton.VanNatten — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 21:03:07 GMT

Andrew's point is fully exemplified by me.... I admit when I first read it thought "That's not true! Avid had 3D Stereoscopic editing capability" Then I read it again and said "oh... for FCP users"

Re: Stereoscopic 3D...do we care?

AndrewAction — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 19:42:06 GMT

switthaus:
You gotta read all the words before jumping to a conclusion.

Yes Scott you do. ADD back the first part of the post you left out "How wonderfully worded, how Apple" and you will see no conspiracy suggested. A compliment to a cleverly worded release.

As an editor you are well aware, or you should be, of how to influence your audiences conclusions of by first planting the idea you want to germinate (first 3D editorial workfow) before a throw away qualifer (for ..... users) i.e. you need Kool-aid to make it grow. Remember the glass is always half full, never half empty, when you understand ALL the words.

So as an editor I am interested in how many casual readers of that press release jumped which way.

Re: Stereoscopic 3D...do we care?

Kenton.VanNatten — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 15:48:25 GMT

It exists in 3.5, I saw a presentation of a film in March at the Boston Avid User Group meeting and it was played out via NitrisDX with Surround Sound.

Re: Stereoscopic 3D...do we care?

jveekeres — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 15:16:14 GMT

better late then never

Re: Stereoscopic 3D...do we care?

TCurren — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 12:19:35 GMT

TrevorA:

Kenton.VanNatten:

I have no need to edit in Surround sound.

I do. And you can't do it to any usable extent in MC. (or any other Avid NLE).

From today's Avid e-mail blast regarding NAB:

"Avid creative tools and the latest innovations in workflows for RED, XDCAM HD, P2, 3D stereoscopy, surround mixing and more"

See the surround mixing line?

Re: Stereoscopic 3D...do we care?

TrevorA — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 11:29:50 GMT

My 3.5 trial has ended so I can't quote from the help file but all it seemed to do was automate the routing of the first 6 direct outs.

IIRC you still have to juggle with 24 seperate audio tracks to achieve the equivalence of 4 tracks in mono (Sync/FX/Music/VO). And I don't think there was any surround panning or ability to easily deal with mono / stereo sources in a 5.1 mix.

Would *LOVE* to be wrong on that.

Re: Stereoscopic 3D...do we care?

switthaus — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 11:19:14 GMT

AndrewAction:
How many people read this as "the industry's first 3D editorial workflow solution" and jump to one conclusion? And how many read it as "first 3D editorial workflow solution for Apple Final Cut Pro users" and get a completely different idea?

Not sure what the issue is here. You gotta read all the words before jumping to a conclusion. I don't see that as an Apple "conpsiracy, drink the Kool-aid" thing at all. ;-)

Personally, I think stereoscopic will be a small part of our workflow in the future, but there are sooo many more core issues that should be higher on the list (metafuze for mac, perhaps?).

scott

Re: Stereoscopic 3D...do we care?

jveekeres — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 09:45:07 GMT

Bobby,

You are right. And I do not have any complaints about version 3 when it comes to its stability or performance. On my XW8200's Xpress pro 5.x and MC 2.x were faster then version 3 but the difference is not so much that it's a big issue. With the update to 3.1.1 the performance was again normal.

I have not tried working with surround in version 3.5. If avid made an upgrade in that department then I will have to check.

I've tried 3 years ago to do a 5ch Dolby surround project (Front LR Rear LR and a sub-woofer). My adrenaline had only 4 analog outs. Panning functions front, rear, what goes to a sub woofer were not available. In the end I took all the audio track to a studio equipped with a real mixer (studer) and there I could do it. I found that my adrenaline was never meant for that.

Before 3D video can be watched at home we still have a lot of work to do. But FIRST "3D audio" was introduced. We reached Dolby digital 7.1, 8.1 we have DTS etc etc.. All mayor movie releases are now presented in Dolby digital. If avid thinks 3D video has a higher priority then Dolby digital, and that is OK priority wise, then there must be something wrong with my mind