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  • Sat, Jul 16 2011 6:25 AM

    • tvprich
    • Not Ranked
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    • Burbank
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    Going Back to Liquid from MC

    As a longtime Pinnacle Liquid user,(Now Emmy Winner While Using Liquid)  I've become spoiled with its ease in non-linear editing. Now that AVID has shelved my product of choice, all I'm left with, (and I have tried and learned most every other computer edit system) is Media Composer.  It's archaic User Interphase is an utter major ClusterF. I've bought MC and literally Shelved It, in hopes that the future UI will better mimic the very same program that AVID has also "Shelved" when it bought Pinnacle.
    I am NOW betting in a brighter future, with AVID, (as it hopefully implements the obvious advantages of "legacy" Liquid). But for now...  I'm left with an, now defunct, (but cleaner, easier, sexier, less complicated, more artistic & fluid) "technical" version of MC called AVID Liquid Pro!

    GigaByte333/Intel-Core-I7, x58A-UD5/3.2Ghz64Bit, 12GigRam, NvidiaQuadro, HX1000wPowerSupply, 250GB-SSD'C'Drive, 2-TB-WDSATA'M'Drive. 2... [view my complete system specs]

    Rich Tamayo, TVPstudiosBurbank.com GigaByte333/Intel-Core-I7, x58A-UD5/3.2Ghz64Bit, 12GigRam, NvidiaQuadro, HX1000wPowerSupply, 250GB-SSD'C'Drive, 2-TB-WDSATA'M'Drive. 2-Samsung-27"Monitors.

  • Sat, Jul 16 2011 6:55 AM In reply to

    Re: Going Back to Liquid from MC

    Hi,

    I get that you're frustrated, but there are rules about swearing on the forum, and you agreed to these rules when you joined.  I've edited your post.  In the future, post within the rules.

    As to your complaint, I'm sure I'm going to regret asking, but are you seriously telling us that not one NLE meets your needs?  Not Media Composer, not FCPX, not Premiere, not Vegas, not anything?

    ciao,
    Carl 

    Media Composer | Software (8.1) w/Symphony option, HP Envy 17t-j100 Quad Edition laptop, Windows 8.1 Pro 64, Intel Core i7 2.4GHz, 16 GB RAM, nVidia GeForce... [view my complete system specs]

    "There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who only consider the price are this man's lawful prey."  - John Ruskin (1819-1900)

     

    Carl Amoscato | Freelance Film & Video Editor | London, UK

  • Sat, Jul 16 2011 9:04 AM In reply to

    Re: Going Back to Liquid from MC

    Media Composer is a lot better than Liquid once you spent some days for learning it.

    It is too easy for you!

    Liquid was the best NLE in the world.

    Now it's MC. Now. It wasn't as MC 3 or 4. MC5 and then it is.

    Tell me if I can be of assist to anything!

    Desktop
    Zalman 600W/Asus P8Z68 Deluxe(Gen3)/i7 2600K@4.5/Corsair 16G DDR3/PNY Quadro 2000D(320.78)/WD VelociRaptor 300@10K(OS)/ 2x2TB WD RE4@RAID 0/LG BH16NS40/W7 Pro 64bit/Media Composer Software 8.0 with Symphony Option/Matrox MXO2 Mini/2xHP 22'' Monitors/M-Audio AV30 Speakers.

     

    Larry as long as I live I will remember you.

     

    IMDbLinkedInTwitterYouTubeFB

  • Sat, Jul 16 2011 9:12 AM In reply to

    • Mike Shaw
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Nov 4 2005
    • Kent, United Kingdom
    • Posts 1,418
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    Re: Going Back to Liquid from MC

    I feel for you and sympathise with you in some ways.  I am gradually beginning to get the hang of MC - the oft quoted maxim here "Forget Liquid's ways and learn MCs ways of doing things"  quite definitely helps to get to grips with MC.   I do still believe that Liquid's workflows were intuitive BUT, that may be because we knew how to use it (although it was very easy to 'pick up', and things worked the way you expected).

    Gradually, MC is becoming the same for me - marginally(!) - when you know how to do something, it feels intuitive.  But really, I think its just knowing how rather than an intuitive instinct.  There is no question in my mind that MC is far far more capable than Liquid - and there, I suspect, lies the reason for its greater complexity and the need for more stringent routines.  MC 5.5 definitely introduced some Liquid like 'flavours' and workflow implementations.   At first I questioned the fact that MC's workflows relied very heavily on the use of the keyboard - something I rarely used in Liquid, but explanations (valid to me) for this were given:  I have since discovered that exactly the same keyboard allocations also apply in Liquid. 

    But look at Liquid's downsides - it is nowhere near as customisable as MC, on any level.  It doesn't have the power and capabilities of MC - for example while I liked Liquid's way of adding and controlling the order of effects, MCs way is very very different - and actually better in the majority of instances, once you've got the hang of it.  Media management is infinitely superior in MC to Liquid's.  And Liquid's interface - which we became adjusted to - is pretty set in its ways, with a selection of just five or six preset screen layouts (depending on whether you had one or two monitors) to choose from. There are other downsides to Liquid which, for me - now - make MC the editor of choice.  Going back to Liquid to do an edit - which I do for something very easy simple and needing a quick turn-around - is almost akin to going back to Pinnacle Studio ... which I no longer have on any of my machines.

    There is no other program like Liquid, and I doubt, now, that there ever will be.  Had I not gone the MC route, I think I'd have gone for Edius - I hear nothing but excellent reports on that one, and some of the Liquid people I know who didn't take on the MC offer went with Edius and are very happy.  I personally would never give space to any of the Adobe editing offerings - I see nothing but problem after problem being discussed amongst Premiere users. 

    MC isn't an easy editor (until you've learned how to use it!).  But for me, now, it is far more satisfying than Liquid simply because there is more potential for being creative when editing a movie.

    Good luck with whatever editor you end up with - I'd like to say hang onto MC and play around with it from time to time... you never know ... one day it might just 'click'!

     

    MC6.0.3.2 Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R Rev2 MB, Intel i7-950 3.06Ghz, 12GB DDR3 1333Mhz RAM, 1x500GB, 3x1TB HDrives, 2+1TB Network drives, nVidia Quadro FX1800... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Jul 16 2011 10:32 AM In reply to

    • Lembit Soobik
    • Top 500 Contributor
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    • Freising - Germany
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    Re: Going Back to Liquid from MC

    I have been using Liquid and the previous ones like Fast AV master 1.1 - well, I'm not a professional, but I like my films to be as pro-looking as possible with the tools I have available. I did like Liquid and was disappointed when they told 'no more Liquid'. so I started to use MC as MC and not as Liquid substitute. Now I have just finished a film about a 35-day travel around the world and I feel much easier than with Liquid. I have learned and now the work goes much more systematic and faster than with Liquid. I agree there are some problems like AVCHD import (has Liquid learned that already?) and the complicated way to register for downloads, but besides these (not really) minor problems I'm happy with MC.

    Lembit

    MC 7.0.4 on Windows 7 pro// HP Z800 WS: 2 x Xeon X5570, 48 GB RAM, Quadro FX4800 1.5GB, disks: 1 x 500 GB SATA 7200 = System/ 1 x 1 TB Samsung... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Jul 16 2011 11:16 AM In reply to

    • Graham Tees
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    Re: Going Back to Liquid from MC

    I too came to Liquid from the FAST systems, and was very happy with it. I took advantage of the upgrade offer to MC, and am really glad I did. (I did contemplate going the FCP route - good thing I didn't go that way.)

    I find MC easy to work in, and feel it is intuitive. I use MC to earn my living and right from the first project I was at home with it. I jumped right in and have never found the need to even consider going back to Liquid. I like being able to organise my work spaces just the way I want them, and have taken to using the keyboard very well.

    There are so many great tutorials available, and there is a lot to learn about the program - but it's well worth-while.

    MC Ver 5.0.3, Intel Core I5, NVidia Quadro FX 570, 8Gb Ram, 250 Gb system drive, 2 Tb Render/Media drive, Windows 7 64bit Pro, QT 7.6.6 [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Jul 16 2011 3:26 PM In reply to

    Re: Going Back to Liquid from MC

    I'm now using MC too, at least for the really big projects. It's a matter of getting used to it, building the "muscle memory" that comes from time spent actually using it. I've learned quite a few keyboard shortcuts, and mapped several functions to my keyboard too, especially Add Edit, like the razor in Liquid. Learn ing to use Locators in MC like the Markers in Liquid helps the editing go faster too.

    Sure, I'm still using Liquid for certain types of simpler projects. That direct to DVD function really works for getting game footage to a coach fast. Also loading old Liquid projects for a client back into Liquid for reworking is probably faster than converting them to MC. But my new projects are ALL IN MC now, with the exception of the sports. That will probably be switched over too before the end of the year.

    Media Composer is much better than Liquid for Media Management. I just love being able to open and close any and even all my bins for a project in seperate windows and lay them out however I choose. You can't do that with the racks in Liquid. Plus trimming is better in MC too. Much better.

    My system isn't close to being Avid certified. I'm still using an ATI video card. At first I ran into a lot of problems. Lot's of them. Boy was I aggravated back then. But now I'm really churning out the work!!!!

    MC 6.0.4,Gateway FX6800, i7 920 Processor, Windows 7 Pro 64 SP1, 6gb Ram, ATI Radeon 4850, Catalyst 12.4 for full screen playback, Canon XH-A1 and A1S... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Jul 16 2011 8:53 PM In reply to

    • sam the sham
    • Top 100 Contributor
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    Re: Going Back to Liquid from MC

    Hi Rich, always liked your work and bet you can win another Emmy with any software you use. But Mike Shaw's post needs reading again and again. It really say's a lot for ex-Liquid users or even current ones.

    So, unless by chance, Apples recent changes has changed the whole NLE playing field I'm looking forward to MC 6.0.

    MC 6.0.3.1 thank you very much, FCP X v.10.1.1, MAC Pro, 2 @ Intel Quad-Core Xeon 2.4 GHz,(Westmere),12gb 1066mhz DDR3 ram, ATI RadeonHD 5870 1GB. 3@ 1TB... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Jul 17 2011 12:42 AM In reply to

    • tvprich
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    Re: Going Back to Liquid from MC

    Sory if I pissed anyone off here with my language. Just Passion Running Through My Veins. (I'll Tone It Down).  I guess my thing is that I'm completely Comitted to AVID as all other edit programs have far more problems, and/but I feel thath AVID just hasn't moved fast enough to impliment new innovations in MC.  I will stick with MC and *** and complain as I learn it better, and know that the future upgrades will only get better and be more "Liquid" like.   I Too Eagerly Look Forward to a 6.0!

    GigaByte333/Intel-Core-I7, x58A-UD5/3.2Ghz64Bit, 12GigRam, NvidiaQuadro, HX1000wPowerSupply, 250GB-SSD'C'Drive, 2-TB-WDSATA'M'Drive. 2... [view my complete system specs]

    Rich Tamayo, TVPstudiosBurbank.com GigaByte333/Intel-Core-I7, x58A-UD5/3.2Ghz64Bit, 12GigRam, NvidiaQuadro, HX1000wPowerSupply, 250GB-SSD'C'Drive, 2-TB-WDSATA'M'Drive. 2-Samsung-27"Monitors.

  • Sun, Jul 17 2011 8:15 AM In reply to

    • Sef
    • Top 100 Contributor
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    • Maarssen, The Netherlands
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    Re: Going Back to Liquid from MC

    The problem is that many users (coming from Liquid) are "spoiled" by the features and User Interface. They probably completely forgotten the time they needed to get the grips on Liquid.

    But then, I think it is much better to ASK assistance for using MC's features when one encounters a problem, (or better phrased: how do I?) In that way you learn from your errors and get an idea of HOW to do things.

    Like Douglas always says: I can give you a fish, but better is that I learn you HOW to fish.

    I followed that path and with a certified system, it becomes more and more a pleasure using MC from day to day. And probably will never or hardly use Liquid (in my "old" machine).

    MC6.0.5, QT version 7.7.1, AvidFX 6.2(64bit), Squeeze Pro 8.5.0.41, AvidDVD 6.4.4 (still in my system, but I don't use it anymore), Boris Continuum... [view my complete system specs]

  • Sun, Jul 17 2011 1:25 PM In reply to

    Re: Going Back to Liquid from MC

    It's worth remembering that for a great many MC. Editors the fact that the interface hadn't changed much in all the years of the product is a big plus for them. To know a product so well you can work fast and effectively allows the interface and the whole "task" of editing to become instinctive. And a Media Composer editor ( a good trained, experienced one) can work on just about any version of Media Composer making the freelance editor Market very robust. It's kind of neat and fun to play with tools that have a lot of automatic and wizard based tools but you end up with DVD Studio Pro type similar outputs. No any changes to the UI need to be subtle and considered. Even the smart tool was too much for many editors ( in that it intruded in their workflows) New features are great but they have to complement the current toolsets. An Apple style approach that thows the baby put with the bath water isn't what Avid need to do Thankfully I don't think well see that!
    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Multiple systems: Symphony V7.0.3 & Resolve Plus FCP... [view my complete system specs]

    Pat Horridge
    Technical Director, Trainer, Avid Certified Instructor, ACSR, Apple Certified Support Professional

    Media Composer V8.1 Review

    Free online Tutorials at VET digital media academy online


    VET      Production    Editing     Digital Media    Blu-ray    DVD
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  • Sun, Jul 17 2011 7:01 PM In reply to

    • TVJohn
    • Top 25 Contributor
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    • Bayonne NJ
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    Re: Going Back to Liquid from MC

    Kind of like jumping into a cold pool...something of an assault on the "good" instincts. Reality is that Liquid, good as it was, will start to fade as the Logic of going 64 bit sinks in. The new formats require conversion to work in Liquid, MC too, but the difference is that MC has a future.

    As has been said here, many Liquid people have taken the Edius route, it is similiar to Liquid in appearance and function. If Avid had not made the migration path available, that direction would have attracted me.

    As it is you and I have something of a barrier to cross. We can continue to live in the yesterdays working in XP 32bit, relying on 3rd party format conversions, or strap in and dive.

    I suggest that you naturally review Douglas' works via a seperate pc as you open MC. Pick a managable short project. Nice quick, satisfaction. 

    Remember the Klingon Battlecruiser GUI of Edition? Intimidating? MC will come easier, you'll have to get past the sense of losing a favorite tool...

    Dell U2713HM(2560x1440), AMD FX8350 8core, AMD 990FX mobo, 16gig-DDR3-1600, GTX260/core 216, Audigy2zs, 1TB SATA system drive, 2TB SATA render, 6TB SATA... [view my complete system specs]

    Using MC 6.0.4, Avid FX6.4, Vegas Pro 13, Tinkering with Edius DVDit6.4proHD, CCE Basic, TmpGe Express4, TmpGe Authoring Works 4, DVDLab-Studio. Sony EX-1R, Canon XH-A1, GL2, GL1, Canon EOS 60D

  • Mon, Jul 18 2011 9:16 AM In reply to

    • Mike Shaw
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Nov 4 2005
    • Kent, United Kingdom
    • Posts 1,418
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    Re: Going Back to Liquid from MC

    It's worth remembering that for a great many MC. Editors the fact that the interface hadn't changed much in all the years of the product is a big plus for them. To know a product so well you can work fast and effectively allows the interface and the whole "task" of editing to become instinctive...

    Constant users of any editor baulk when changes to the interface or workflows are made, because it upsets their established routines.  ( The fact that the workflows are well known doesn't mean, for me anyway, that they are intuitive - it means they have been learned, mastered and understood and become 'reflex actions' - rather like driving a car.  To me intuitive means that even if you don't know how to do something, you can work it out from the 'controls' available. That isn't always the case with MC - for me - some of the procedures demand know how and cannot be 'deduced').

    On the other side of the coin, MC is quite definitely the programme for professionals (over all others!), which I am quite definitely not!  I would believe - or imagine - that professional users have some formal training in the product, and are using it all day every day. I don't, by a very long chalk.  Consequently my take on it is that of a raw amateur: using MC for me is an exciting opportunity to use the best.  I'd like it to be easier - for me - but readily accept that, experienced and constant users - have no problem with the procedures and workflows.  I would reallyh hesitate to make it 'too Liquid-like' - because that could be 'dumbing down' some of the potential:  I remember way back when Pinnacle Studio users were starting out with Liquid, the continual cry was - why don't they make this bit or that bit work the way Pinnacle Studio does!  The answer is - or was - because that detracts from the editor's capabilities.  Same applies to MC: let's not make it work too much like Liquid - we'll lose out in the long run.  IMO of course!

     

    MC6.0.3.2 Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD3R Rev2 MB, Intel i7-950 3.06Ghz, 12GB DDR3 1333Mhz RAM, 1x500GB, 3x1TB HDrives, 2+1TB Network drives, nVidia Quadro FX1800... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Jul 18 2011 9:18 AM In reply to

    • Kestutis_N
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    • Vilnius
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    Re: Going Back to Liquid from MC

    Roger Van Duyn:
    I just love being able to open and close any and even all my bins for a project in seperate windows and lay them out however I choose. You can't do that with the racks in Liquid.
    I would oppose - opening large number of bins leads to chaos. This doesn't happen when the material organized in a "tree" style. Have long-term (several years) Liquid projects, where such bins are a few hundred - very convenient.

    1system - Intel Core i7-930, ASUS P6T Deluxe V2, 6x2GB DDR 3(Dominator-12800C8*XMP*3CH) RAM, PNY Quadro FX580, WD 150GB SATA2 10KRPM 16MB (system), G-Speed... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Jul 18 2011 2:17 PM In reply to

    • Tim
    • Top 150 Contributor
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    Re: Going Back to Liquid from MC

    If you are a Emmy Award Winning Film Editor I recommend that you look at and try MC's Trim Editor

    especially if you are editing multicamera films, the seamless edits and playback in MC's Trim Mode are second to none, I've tried ALL other NLE's Trim Editors and not one of them comes close to MC's power speed and flexibility.

    MC5.0.4.4 Q9650quad3.01ghz_AsusP5KWS_4gigDDR2-1066_NvidiaQaudroFX3400/4000SDI_4xRaid0,500gig_Vista Business64bit [view my complete system specs]

     

     

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