Latest post Fri, Jan 28 2011 4:51 AM by dermot. 6 replies.
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  • Tue, Jan 25 2011 1:22 PM

    • bora
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    avid ds dpx export

    Could you please tell me which export setting should I use for HD material to film out at Avid DS version 10. 

    It seems "ITU 601-709 "setting the blacks is not strong enough AND  in "legacy graphic"  the colors seem to be incorrect.

    please helpi

    Susan

  • Tue, Jan 25 2011 1:38 PM In reply to

    • dermot
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    Re: avid ds dpx export

    A few question's;

    What's excact version of 10 are you using (the color managment changed in 10.2, and options are diffrent after that version)?

    What's the film out house expecting? REC709? full range 0-1023? video range 64-9whatever?

    Have you tried exporting a test frames of a linear ramp and looking at it outside DS?

    I normaly use Linear, but you will need to test as it can also depend upon your sequence LUT

    d/

     

    8600 - 3700 - AJA 2Ke - u320 array - Dream Color [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Jan 27 2011 3:22 PM In reply to

    • bora
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    Re: avid ds dpx export

    our version is 10.5.   Film out house does not expect anything. They just transfer what we send... First of all I want to learn that what should be our sequance lut. ITU REC 709 or 0-1023 Legacy Graphic. And how should we export it, 709 or Legacy graphic or ITU?

     For DCI when we work in 0-1023 full range and export it 0-1023 again in DCI gamma or Legacy graphic, the results are deteriated. What are we making wrong?

    Our files are s-log from sony f35.

  • Thu, Jan 27 2011 6:46 PM In reply to

    • dermot
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    Re: avid ds dpx export

    i am working in a 2K (2048x1152) project today but opened up a DCI2K to double check, i have all my settings at Linear - project, input levels,  input LUT, export LUT

    I am seeing full range on injest & matching full range output when capturing, rendering a cashe and exporting a full range test file

    d.

     

    8600 - 3700 - AJA 2Ke - u320 array - Dream Color [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Jan 27 2011 7:54 PM In reply to

    Re: avid ds dpx export

    The lab must expect something. Even if they don't know it their film recorder is expecting to see a certain gamma, specific levels for black and white point, etc. If they trully don't know how  you need to deliver files you should look into doing business with a more experienced lab.

    Setting up a color management chain by trial and error is very hard.

    Your sequence LUT affects rendered caches and AJA monitoring output only. It does not affect the values of the DPX files. What's hard coded into DPX depends on the LUT settings in the DPX dialog box, or can also be affected by LUTs applied in the sequence.

    Therefore, you really need to know how your target equipment (film recorder) will interpret the files before you write them.

    Igor Ridanovic

    www.HDhead.com

  • Thu, Jan 27 2011 11:42 PM In reply to

    • sf
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    Re: avid ds dpx export

    Unfortunately I can not change the lab, because they do my film for free. It is a new lab and maybe I can learn what they use by searching their standard set ups by looking within Arri Laser.

    But what is more urgent for me is the DCI print since I have to send the film to a festival in this format soon.

    --Within Avid ds export settings, there is "DCI gamma 2.6 (0-1023)" option. Does this mean that it makes the conversion for DCI and we dont need to make the conversion again in Digital cinema server?
    --Our sequance lut is "Legacy Graphic".. since its gamut is 0-1023 we can see the image on Barco monitor very good and it is easier to work on it for color grading etc. Is it possible to transfer what we see in Barco to DCI in the same 0-1023 levels. Do you know if DCI projectors (High end Christies) are capable of reproducing 0-1023 levels as we see it in the monitor? This would be great but our many test results insist to show us that DCI seems better only if we export the footage in a narrower gamut like rec 709. And I dont want to believe in that. I want to see  on the theatre screen the exraordinary cinemascope results that I see in the monitor.
    --Does it help to export by upgrading to 2K resolution in exporting stage for DCI or Film out?
    --you say you stay in Linear setting all the way. But it say the gamma for Lineer is 1. Isn't it a problem? Or what does it mean.?

    Thanks...
    Susan

  • Fri, Jan 28 2011 4:51 AM In reply to

    • dermot
    • Top 200 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Oct 13 2005
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    Re: avid ds dpx export

    I too think you will need the lab's input....

    The first the thing i do is get a full range gradeient,  marcie, and a LUT from the film out house, i make sure that the ramp & marcie can get through my system cleanly by importing, rendering, and exporting them, then A/Bing them at the film out facility to see a match, that qualifies my system - i can take a scan in and send back out cleanly.. no sense going any further untill this is sorted.

    I use the supplied LUT in my monitor usualy, sometimes as a source side effect, sometimes as a timeline or clip effect, but in all cases am viewing the LOG footage transformed into linear by the LUT, but the footage remains LOG, only the viewer is Linear.

    The LUT it's self can vary greatly, from a straightforward 1D LOG to 709, to a  3D LOG to 709 displaying as 2383 @ 16fl / D54, what you see on your screen, and how you set up your viewing enviroment is also very diffrent for each... it's allot of choices combined to make an accurate workspace.

    All this needs the lab's involvment.. it's not easy and takes allot of testing.

    Is it possiable the lab will be expecting REC709 clamped? Arri have some very good LUTs to take 709 to film with out the headaches of creating a closed loop

    If so your life has become much easier.

    The shows i have delivered for DCP have been done in 709, and i have been very pleased with what ever went on to get my work to a screen.. probbaly the closest i have ever seen, far closer than film prints

    I'm testing P3 right now, should be able to see the resualts in the next few days.. but one thing  - P3 spec's call for 16Fl as well, so you will need a well controled enviroment to make this work

    DCP calls for 16bit TIFF's, not DPX so i have changed all my outputs now to that, to future proof the producer's....

    I am working in 2048x1152 for this project as that's what the SI camera shoots at, but if i was finishing a F35 show i would work at HD, as that's what the F35 shoots, avoiding un-needed scaling.

    Most of the questions need some input from your lab to be resolved, for now if in doubt, my advice is to work in work in 709, and test, test and test again before taking on 3D LUT's and P3

    I'm testing long before i need to use P3, i am hopefull that i will have it working safely and transparently by April

    d/

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    8600 - 3700 - AJA 2Ke - u320 array - Dream Color [view my complete system specs]
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