Latest post Sat, Jul 3 2010 4:51 PM by Mondo. 13 replies.
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  • Thu, Jul 1 2010 7:59 PM

    • Joe M
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    Workflow question re: After Effects, Cineform and AVID

    This is probably an easy question for someone... but, I'll be if I can figure it out.

    I frequently create animation and compositing projects in After Effects that do no involve any video media source... (for example, a title graphics). 

    I want to import this into AVID to use with video whose souce is m2t video files BUT was converted into CINEFORM file formats for easier use between Adobe and AVID.  Basically, Cineform is my standardized video format.

    However, I can seem to find a way to convert the AE (only) created animation videos into a Cineform convertable file format.

    Cineform Neoscene will only capture or convert m2t or similar AVCH file formats, but no other file format.

    Does Cineform HD convet AVI or MOV files created with AE into Cineform forms that is useable between AVID and AE?  As best I can tell, Neoscene will not convert AVI or MOV's into Cineform (it only converts ACHV).  Or is there a way to do an AVI or MOV file created in AE and covert it to an Cineform video file format?

    Cineform seems to be the best common file format for standard HD video and it's compatability with both Adobe and AVID... but, when I create a project solely in AE (no video source) this Cineform, AE and AVID common format doesn't work because I can't create a Cineform Neoscene convertable file type with AE (or Squeeze).

    BTW, I will be using AVID MC5 as soon as I get the upgrade key... until then, I am using MC4.  ...Will MC5 make a difference in compatibility with my Cineform to AE and AVID common file format problem?

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  • Fri, Jul 2 2010 3:36 AM In reply to

    • mtahir
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    Re: Workflow question re: After Effects, Cineform and AVID

    I've been using Premiere CS4 for a project that has to be cut with CS4, and I have been trying to get from CS4 to AE, and back again, with the minimum amount of trouble.

    You're right in what you say about Cineform. I've been playing with the trial version. It's output is impressive. And yes, it doesn't seem to be able to handle .mov files from Squeeze or AE. I do have a 1080p24 H264 file which Cineform accepted. This isn't something I created but a piece of footage I found on the web some years ago. Mind you, the files that Cineform doesn't accept are DNxHD files with a QT wrapper. I've been working on using DNxHD to pass between CS4 and AE. I only have AE 5.5 Production bundle from many years ago. This is the flow that I want to try to get working (eventually between AE and MC5).

    MC5 can read AVCHD files straight in. It will transcode them to a DNxHD format. I think the smallest one is DNxHD120. In the past, with XPro, I used to use QTREF to get between Avid and AE. And that worked very well. I haven't tried this with MC5. I don't know what works with QTREF anymore regarding HD. I used to use SD.

    I hope that helps! I'll let you know if I discover anything else.

    Regards

    Mohammed

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  • Fri, Jul 2 2010 7:05 AM In reply to

    • Joe M
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    Re: Workflow question re: After Effects, Cineform and AVID

    If I read your post correctly...

    ... if MC doesn't handle mov files from squeez or ae... then, the only other option would be AVI... but, a big problem would be that MC has 2G limit on AVI file sizes... WHICH IS ABSOLUTELY LAME and it appears AVID doesn't care about this limitation!

    I just got MC5 (PC) setup this evening... I plan on seeing what it accepts with regard to using CINEFORM and AE to MC5 combinations... According to Cineforms site... Cineform is suppose to be very adaptable to MC5... which seems to be true IF you are starting with AVCH video files as the conversion source.  BUT... if you start with an AE created animation... I can't find a way to convert this AE animation to Cineform then to MC5 to work with Cineform convert/captured video. 

    From what I have read... the Cineform codec works well with AE and MC (using only video as the source)... I read where it doesn't have luma matte problems that are common issues when transferring between AE and many editing applications.  The DNxHD is good stuff, but Cineform seems to do a better job on a few levels (such as handling alpha channels and providing 422 from a 420 original video source... to name a few).

    I am hoping some has a Cineform workflow that uses AE created animations to convert between AE and MC5 and/or MC4.

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  • Fri, Jul 2 2010 7:14 AM In reply to

    • mjolnarn
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    Re: Workflow question re: After Effects, Cineform and AVID

    Of course Media Composer supports mov files created by AE using an Avid codec, I use this workflow all the time.

    Those files, with the correct rendering settings from AE and the correct importing settings in MC will fast import into MC.

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    Tomas 

     

  • Fri, Jul 2 2010 12:57 PM In reply to

    • mtahir
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    Re: Workflow question re: After Effects, Cineform and AVID

    Sorry, JoeM, I think you might have misunderstood me. It's Cineform that doesn't seem to accept mov files when using the DNxHD codec. No problems with AE or MC5 in this regard.

    Mjolnarn could you possibly give some information about the workflow you us with AE and MC5? Are you working with HD? My workflow used to be QTREF out with Avid codec into AE and then AE with Avid codec back to XPro. Is that still a valid workflow if you are using, say, AVCHD files?

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  • Fri, Jul 2 2010 3:39 PM In reply to

    • mjolnarn
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    Re: Workflow question re: After Effects, Cineform and AVID

    For SD, a qtref out of a 1:1x sequense and back with the same codec will fast import if you are using 601 / 709

    For HD, a qt ref out of a DnxHd encoded sequense and back with the same codec also using 601 / 709 will fast import.

    I cannot see where avchd belongs in this workflow, MC5 still have to transcode it to an avid codec

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    Tomas 

     

  • Fri, Jul 2 2010 11:40 PM In reply to

    • mtahir
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    Re: Workflow question re: After Effects, Cineform and AVID

    Thanks, mjolnarn. Yes, AVCHD does get transcoded into DNxHD120. I wasn't very clear on what I meant there.

    Does your QTREF file playback ok on your machine using QT or VLC i.e is it smooth?

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  • Sat, Jul 3 2010 12:34 AM In reply to

    • lunalobo75
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    Re: Workflow question re: After Effects, Cineform and AVID

    What I do is convert my 1080 24p/60i Avchd (GH1) with Cineform and transcode the Cineform file with a DNxHD codec. For After effects, I just output a QTref DNxHD file (from Avid); From AE to Avid, either animation or DNxHD codec for fast import.

     

    You can AMA the Cineform file  with MC5, but I feel it's a bit sluggish, that''s why it's simpler to transcode Cineform to DNxHD for smother playback and effects within MC5.

     

    I did find it better to import Cindeform .avi to MC 5 (DnxHD 115 or 36) than transcode it with Metafuze (then use Media tool). Metafuze washes out the Cineform file. It's something I brought up to Cineform  (their support is awesome!) which they are going to get back to soon. But I'm happy with teh quality importing the .avi into MC 5 with a DnxHd workflow.

     

    Salud!

     

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  • Sat, Jul 3 2010 4:51 AM In reply to

    • Joe M
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    Re: Workflow question re: After Effects, Cineform and AVID

    lunalobo75:

    I did find it better to import Cindeform .avi to MC 5 (DnxHD 115 or 36) than transcode it with Metafuze (then use Media tool). Metafuze washes out the Cineform file. It's something I brought up to Cineform  (their support is awesome!) which they are going to get back to soon. But I'm happy with teh quality importing the .avi into MC 5 with a DnxHd workflow.

    When you say Metafuze washes out the Cineform... do you mean that the Cineform created file is converted from an 10bit to a 8bit...?  If so, that is what I noticed with regard to QT files created by Cineform.

     

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    .

  • Sat, Jul 3 2010 5:57 AM In reply to

    • lunalobo75
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    Re: Workflow question re: After Effects, Cineform and AVID

    To be quite honest, I don't know if Metafuze converts it to 8 bit or not.  All I know is if I use Metafuze to transcode, then bring in the .mxf files via Media tool, the colors look desaturated and the blacks look a little grey. If I import via Avid (no Metafuze) with A DNxHD codec, the color saturation and Colors are exact to the Cineform .avi file. I even tested it in After Effect (QT ref) and Avid...it's a near carbon copy.

     

    Anyways, in my humble opinion, I love Cineform Neoscene for converting my  GH1 AVCHD files to 1080 24p, then import them via Avid to DnxHD. AMA function for the  Cineform Avi's are sluggish, and metafuze washes out the colors. Do a test and you'll see what I'm saying.

    And, yeah, AVCHD to Cineform to Avid is 2 step process, but if there is quality loss, I DON'T SEE IT. I also use After Effects for Color Correction/ Effects. Most peeps would ask, "Why export /import another deco/reco, and not use Avid FX natively?" Well, because I know and love After Effects and generational quality loss is insignificant to my my eye and workflow. But, that's my opinion.

     

    Salud!

     

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  • Sat, Jul 3 2010 6:44 AM In reply to

    • Joe M
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    Re: Workflow question re: After Effects, Cineform and AVID

    Never mind my post... I found out that my project settings were importing at 8bit HD format instead of 10bit...

    BTW, I found that using a QT uncompressed render of an AE file format creates the best quality (but huge file size) and will import into AVID as a 10bit DNxHD (in 59.97 world a 220 for a 1920x1080) with very good quality... but, it VERY time consuming to render.

    I am still experimenting with other formats... but, still have found no way to incorporate renders from AE that can use Cineform.  And, I haven't found a way to transfer from AVID to AE that also uses Cineform.

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    .

  • Sat, Jul 3 2010 7:05 AM In reply to

    • lunalobo75
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    Re: Workflow question re: After Effects, Cineform and AVID

    Avid to AE? Dont' use Cineform as an export. Use QT ref with DNxHD. Cineform, for me, is just a step to convert AVCHD to near lossless quality, then DNxHD ro Avid. Onve you are in Avid just export Qt Ref with DnxHD - no need to export to Cineform...or maybe I'm misunderstanding you? MY apologies...

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  • Sat, Jul 3 2010 4:46 PM In reply to

    • Mondo
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    Re: Workflow question re: After Effects, Cineform and AVID

    Joe M:
    if MC doesn't handle mov files from squeez or ae... then, the only other option would be AVI... but, a big problem would be that MC has 2G limit on AVI file sizes... WHICH IS ABSOLUTELY LAME and it appears AVID doesn't care about this limitation!

     

    Joe - i may be wrong but I think the 2G file limit only applies to the Avid AVI codec which is a very old codec (AVI type1) - all AVI type 1 codecs were limted to 2Gig because they were designed at a time when many operating file systems were limited to 2Gig for individual files. In any case I can't remember the last time I had to deal with an AVI file. That's just my workflow of course.

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    John

    Can we go back to the way audio nodes used to be selected? Please? ie if you have audio nodes at the same time on selected tracks; then selecting 1 audio node selects them all at that time. Having to shift select nodes or add an in and out is time consuming and counter productive. At least make it an option.

  • Sat, Jul 3 2010 4:51 PM In reply to

    • Mondo
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    Re: Workflow question re: After Effects, Cineform and AVID

    Joe M:

    BTW, I will be using AVID MC5 as soon as I get the upgrade key... until then, I am using MC4.  ...Will MC5 make a difference in compatibility with my Cineform to AE and AVID common file format problem?

    BTW Joe M - don't wait. If you've already ordered the upgrade, just use the fully functional free trial for 30 days.

    HP Z820 16GB RAM Winx64Pro SP1/Xeon 2620 x 2/Quadro 4000 NitrisDX, Fiber client Unity client 5.3 Build 15440, 4 bay SSD dock (Addonics) Custom build: Asus... [view my complete system specs]

    John

    Can we go back to the way audio nodes used to be selected? Please? ie if you have audio nodes at the same time on selected tracks; then selecting 1 audio node selects them all at that time. Having to shift select nodes or add an in and out is time consuming and counter productive. At least make it an option.

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