Latest post Sun, May 23 2010 8:56 PM by Job ter Burg. 9 replies.
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  • Sun, May 23 2010 4:12 PM

    • Betsy
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    Switching from FCP to AMC -QT's are darker on import

    Okay, I have been given a FCP documentary project (the director has only made selects) The editor wants to work in avid.

    The media is from 2 cameras. a JVC camera that has created apple XDCAM EX 1080p24 QT's at 23.98 and

    media from the Sony EX3 camera.

    I have used the fabulous AMA feature to bring in the sony EX3 media and I am importing the other quicktimes using the setting: File Pixel to Video Mapping 601/709 and Ignoring the Alpah channel.

     

    The images from both my AMA import and the import from the JVC camera are visablly darker than the originals QT's that FCP linked to. We have some concert footage and it really makes a difference in the low light. It looks fine in FCP but too dark when Imported into the avid when compaired side by side on the same monitor.

    This is also true with the EX3 camera that I brough in with AMA. (In FCP they had to created apple XDCAM EX 1080p QT's) this is what I am compairing it to.

    Is there a way to import my JVC QT's and have them look as  they did in FCP?

    I am working on FCP 6.06 and Avid 4.02

    Thanks,
    Betsy

  • Sun, May 23 2010 5:06 PM In reply to

    Re: Switching from FCP to AMC -QT's are darker on import

    FCP/QT mess up gamma. You cannot tell them to leave it alone. You should therefore consider making the FCP files look like the Avid imports, rather than the other way around. What AMA gives is, is _exactly_ what the camera has captured. What FCP shows you, is a remapped image, most often with a gamma shift. The same thing happened on a P2 doc I did two years ago. Avid levels were correct, FCP imported clips were wrong, whatever setting we used to bring them into Avid.

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, May 23 2010 5:11 PM In reply to

    Re: Switching from FCP to AMC -QT's are darker on import

    I'm pretty sure FCP works in RGB color space, so you'll want to import the QTs as RGB and not 601. 

    MacPro dual 2.66GHz 6GB RAM nVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT Storage: 2TB G-Speed eS with controller card 3x1TB Hitachi SATA-II internals, various external FW/USB... [view my complete system specs]

    Kenton VanNatten | Avid Editor (for hire)

    "I am not obsessed... I'm detail-oriented"

  • Sun, May 23 2010 6:38 PM In reply to

    Re: Switching from FCP to AMC -QT's are darker on import

    Kenton.VanNatten:
    I'm pretty sure FCP works in RGB color space

    Most people seem to agree that FCP works in 0-235, not 0-255, not 16-235. And without the option to leave things untouched. So if you import something into FCP, there's no getting it back to the original levels anymore.

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, May 23 2010 7:10 PM In reply to

    • Betsy
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    Re: Switching from FCP to AMC -QT's are darker on import

    I guess I should clarify. These quicktimes were not made in FCP.

    Sony EX3 footage. I have the original camera files and used AMA to bring them into avid.

    The JVC camera files were created in the camera. I will try and research if they are originally 601 or RGB.

    So, I have all the original files to bring into avid. The problem is that the director has been looking at them in FCP and now that we are switching to avid they are dark enough that it is hard to see what is happening in the scene.It is enough of a problem for them to want to switch back to FCP.

    I have tried bringing the clips in at 601 and RGB into the avid and it doesn't make much of a difference.

     

    Because I am just importing quicktimes, is there a way to brighten them just a little so we can see faces better.

    Betsy

  • Sun, May 23 2010 7:12 PM In reply to

    • Betsy
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    • Joined on Tue, Jul 4 2006
    • Posts 31
    • Points 495

    Re: Switching from FCP to AMC -QT's are darker on import

    Is there a way to tell what the color space of the quicktime is from Quicktime pro?

  • Sun, May 23 2010 7:36 PM In reply to

    Re: Switching from FCP to AMC -QT's are darker on import

    GaterKids:
    Sony EX3 footage. I have the original camera files and used AMA to bring them into avid.

    So that's AMA, not a Quicktime import.

    GaterKids:
    The JVC camera files were created in the camera. I will try and research if they are originally 601 or RGB.

    They must be 709. That's what video is. Blacks should be at 16, peak whites may be as high as 245 or even 255. That's the headroom that most video cameras use.

    GaterKids:
    The problem is that the director has been looking at them in FCP

    Where all those imports will look different, because FCP/QT "corrects" the gamma when bringing in footage (even if you would not want that).

    GaterKids:
    I have tried bringing the clips in at 601 and RGB into the avid and it doesn't make much of a difference.
    That only works when importing Quicktime movies or graphics. When you bring in stuff over AMA, it comes in as is.

    GaterKids:
    Because I am just importing quicktimes,

    Huh? I thought you are bringing it in over AMA...???

     

    Another thing to consider: on what type of monitor are you watching this footage, and is that monitor more or less properly calibrated? How does the footage look on the waveform monitor? Are the blacks at 16, or under?

     

    is there a way to brighten them just a little

    Color Correction. Just tweak the Master Curve.

     

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, May 23 2010 7:52 PM In reply to

    Re: Switching from FCP to AMC -QT's are darker on import

    GaterKids:
    The problem is that the director has been looking at them in FCP and now that we are switching to avid they are dark enough that it is hard to see what is happening in the scene.It is enough of a problem for them to want to switch back to FCP.

    See the trouble is that let's say you're watching your favorite movie on a television with the brightness turned up too high, so much that the footage is being represented incorrectly.  Then, you watch the same movie at a friend's house where the television is setup correctly.  You will believe that the footage is dark because on your TV it is shown that way.

    As Job is saying, if you're using AMA then you're seeing an exact representation of the footage.  FCP doesn't have anything like AMA, so anything brought into it is wrapped as a QT.  This re-wrap can affect gamma.  Avid is showing the footage as dark because it probably is.  The sure fire way to find out whether the footage is too dark or not is to look at it on a waveform monitor.

     

    MacPro dual 2.66GHz 6GB RAM nVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT Storage: 2TB G-Speed eS with controller card 3x1TB Hitachi SATA-II internals, various external FW/USB... [view my complete system specs]

    Kenton VanNatten | Avid Editor (for hire)

    "I am not obsessed... I'm detail-oriented"

  • Sun, May 23 2010 8:51 PM In reply to

    • Betsy
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Tue, Jul 4 2006
    • Posts 31
    • Points 495

    Re: Switching from FCP to AMC -QT's are darker on import

    You have been wonderfully helpful.  To answer the confusion. It is a documentary hand there were two different types of cameras. the EX3 could be brought in thru AMA and the JVC camera made .mov's in the camera and that was coppied onto a hard drive for us.

    thanks again,

    Betsy

  • Sun, May 23 2010 8:56 PM In reply to

    Re: Switching from FCP to AMC -QT's are darker on import

    Ah, double check the JVC's. Those are probably in AVCHD or something like that, and may use different gamma, I just don't know. Simply check the waveform monitor when in color correction mode. That will tell you where the blacks and whites live.

    Media Composer /w Symphony option | PT-HD | Win7Pro64 HP | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 | Nitris DX | Artist Mix & Transport & Color | AJA T-Tap | Decklink... [view my complete system specs]
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