Latest post Sat, May 22 2010 5:55 PM by Larry Rubin. 32 replies.
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  • Thu, May 20 2010 6:37 PM

    • yon1
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    clunky interface ?

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    I'm currently trying out MC to see if I should upgrade from LE.

    My general impression is that MC is "clunky" from a UI point if view.

    Having keyboard short cuts is great - nevertheless IMHO everything should be easily available from a menu so that you can find it, or so that yuou can browse throught it and see what's available.

    Example - I was playing around with a the color correction curves. I wanted to get rid of a key frame on the curve. Eventually I found I needed to use the delete key - maybe there's a way to do it with a mouse (right click being the first thing I tried) - but if it's there it certainly wasn't easy to find

    why can't I drag a slide and see the histogram move in real time - or even better drag the historgram.

    I get the impression that MC is a key based system with a GUI dropped on to it bit by bit....

    Coming from LE it's uncomfortable which has a clean and consistent GUI it's uncomfortable.

    Am I missing something ?

    I'm a hobbysit so I don't really need all of MCs capabilities, but I'll probably take the upgrade just because it's to great a deal to miss, and one of these days LE is going to stop working on some HW/OS

    I suspect that one day Avis will completly revamp the GUI and start from scratch - but will I need to pay a lot of money to get it ?

     

     

     

     

    MC 5.04 windows 7, Core i7 CPU, MoBo Asus P6X58D , 6GB RAM, Quadro 2000D, 512GB & Raid 0 1TB, [view my complete system specs]

    Yonatan

  • Thu, May 20 2010 6:45 PM In reply to

    • Solopost
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    Re: clunky interface ?

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    yon1:
    I suspect that one day Avis will completly revamp the GUI and start from scratch - but will I need to pay a lot of money to get it ?

    Don't hold your breath. MC is not, primarily, geared for the home hobbyist or amateur.

    It may seem "clunky" to you, but to those using Avid since the early 1990's - it's simple and intuitive. I said it in another thread, MC is NOT Liquid. There will be major differences between the two software and there will ALWAYS be those who are upset at how MC operates... it's called a learning curve. You never knew Liquid at one time either.. but you learnt to use it and work with it. The same goes for MC (if you want to use it)

    yon1:
    and one of these days LE is going to stop working on some HW/OS
    .

    If you don't NEED to upgrade the HW/OS - why would LE stop working? I have said this to those who complain about the upgrade and the system requirements etc.... NEED to upgrade vs WANT to upgrade... balance it up. If you don't NEED to.. why do it? I don't upgrade to the latest hardware or software just because I WANT to.. I upgrade when I NEED to.

    yon1:
    Example - I was playing around with a the color correction curves. I wanted to get rid of a key frame on the curve. Eventually I found I needed to use the delete key - maybe there's a way to do it with a mouse (right click being the first thing I tried) - but if it's there it certainly wasn't easy to find

    But you found it... a simple press of the delete key and the keyframe was gone.. one step, done. You learnt how to do it... keep going, you will be surprised at many other things you can do with MC - and yes, you will be upset there are things you may not be able to do in MC that you could in Liquid.. You can't please everyone.

    SYS# 1- MC6.5 Mac Pro 2xQuad-Core Intel 3.2Ghz 18Gb Ram OS 10.7.5 2Tb storage (mixed SATA/1394/1394b) SYS# 2- MC6.5 Macbook Pro 2.8Ghz (mid-2009) 4Gb... [view my complete system specs]

    My Two Cents .02
    Kent Brockman

  • Thu, May 20 2010 7:08 PM In reply to

    Re: clunky interface ?

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    yon1:
    everything should be easily available from a menu so that you can find it, or so that yuou can browse throught it and see what's available.

    Having the ability to poke around and browse and see what's there is only really viable when you're first learning.  Once it's learned, you don't need to browse, you just perform the action.  

    I bounce between Photoshop, After Effects and Avid all the time and they each have their own menu setups etc.  Similarly, you don't have to pull out your car's owner manual each time you want to turn on the headlights, even though the headlight switch might be in a different place than on your last car.  Once you figure it out, you adapt your approach.  

    MacPro dual 2.66GHz 6GB RAM nVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT Storage: 2TB G-Speed eS with controller card 3x1TB Hitachi SATA-II internals, various external FW/USB... [view my complete system specs]

    Kenton VanNatten | Avid Editor (for hire)

    "I am not obsessed... I'm detail-oriented"

  • Thu, May 20 2010 7:41 PM In reply to

    • conleec
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    Re: clunky interface ?

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    In the day, Avid was built from the ground up to appeal to film editors who were coming from the physical domain of upright Moviolas and flatbet Kems and Steinbecks. Mousing around was a totally foreign concept to editors back then, so the keyboard took front and center in a way that was (hopefully) not too daunting.

    When you work 12 hour shifts, 6 days a week, I quite appreciate being able to do much of what needs to be done at the keyboard, without the contast mouse waggling. However, folks coming from other systems are used to different ways of doing things. With MC5 Avid will be giving people more flexibility in this regard. They're listening.

    Chris

    MacPro 3.33Ghz 12 Core (Westmere, MacPro 5,1), 48Gb RAM, nVidia GeForce GTX 680, Intensity Pro (Desktop Video 10.4.3), OS X 10.13.6, MC 2018.12 [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, May 20 2010 7:50 PM In reply to

    Re: clunky interface ?

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    MC5 looks like a real new interface yon.

    But I guess this is because you still have Liquid on your mind.

    Take it out and go on.

    Desktop PC

     

    Corsair RM750X|Asus P8Z68 Deluxe(Gen3)|i7 2600K@4.4|Corsair 32G DDR3|PNY Quadro P2000(390.77)|Samsung 850 Pro SSD(OS) 256 GB|2x2TB WD RE4@RAID 0|2x500GB Mushkin SSD@RAID 0|LG BH16NS40|W10 Pro 64bit|Media Composer Software 2018.12 with Symphony Option on Dongle|2xHP 22'' Monitors|M-Audio AV30 Speakers.

     

    Larry as long as I live I will remember you.

     

    3 Heads Digital Films

  • Thu, May 20 2010 11:13 PM In reply to

    • yon1
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    Re: clunky interface ?

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    I get the message....

    Anyway, I don't want to start a war - but for the fun of it.....

    Think of it this way. If MC had been designed now it would not the look the way it looks now.

    But that is true of me as well (I was designed 52 years ago :-)

    The standards have changed, but MC is stuck with a legacy. The fact that the new version has added graphics shows that Avid also thinks so.

     

    cheers

     

    MC 5.04 windows 7, Core i7 CPU, MoBo Asus P6X58D , 6GB RAM, Quadro 2000D, 512GB & Raid 0 1TB, [view my complete system specs]

    Yonatan

  • Thu, May 20 2010 11:19 PM In reply to

    Re: clunky interface ?

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    Remember what some people were saying about AL's interface...

    I insist that Media Composer 5 interface is awesome.

    At least this is what it looks like from the stills we already saw.

    Desktop PC

     

    Corsair RM750X|Asus P8Z68 Deluxe(Gen3)|i7 2600K@4.4|Corsair 32G DDR3|PNY Quadro P2000(390.77)|Samsung 850 Pro SSD(OS) 256 GB|2x2TB WD RE4@RAID 0|2x500GB Mushkin SSD@RAID 0|LG BH16NS40|W10 Pro 64bit|Media Composer Software 2018.12 with Symphony Option on Dongle|2xHP 22'' Monitors|M-Audio AV30 Speakers.

     

    Larry as long as I live I will remember you.

     

    3 Heads Digital Films

  • Fri, May 21 2010 3:01 AM In reply to

    • jwrl
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    Re: clunky interface ?

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    yon1:
    The standards have changed, but MC is stuck with a legacy.
    I'm not sure that "stuck" is the word that I'd use.

    I routinely use FCP, AE, very occasionally Premiere, Blender (which has NLE functions built in), as well as Photoshop and The Gimp.  They all have quite different interfaces, and often do things in quite different ways.  You just use the tools you've got in the way they're designed to be used.

    What you really need to consider is whether you're driving Media Composer like a Media Composer, or whether you're trying to force it to be Liquid.  If it's the former you may be a little slower at the outset as you familiarise yourself with your new tool, but down the track it will become second nature.  If it's the latter then you'll never really adjust and the best you can hope for is that the process becomes less hateful.

    MC 7.0.4 - Asus P6T Deluxe V2 mobo - Intel i7 920 2.66GHz - Windows 7 Ult64 SP1 - nVidia Quadro FX 1800 - 16 Gbyte low latency DDR3 RAM - Internal 8 Tb... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, May 21 2010 3:25 AM In reply to

    • Saylur
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    Re: clunky interface ?

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    The facts are Liquid is history, move on,thats life.

    MC-6.0.5,MB Asus Z87 Expert 1150 ATX,Intel Core i7 4770 3.4 Ghz CPU,32GB Kingston DDR3 Mem.,Samsung 840 250GB SSD,Win 7 Pro SP 1, QT 7.7.3,PNY Quadro K2000... [view my complete system specs]

    Regards

    Mike

  • Fri, May 21 2010 6:31 AM In reply to

    • conleec
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    Re: clunky interface ?

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    I have to say that I feel your pain. I came to Avid late, from a variety of PC and Amiga based systems. All of the other systems were more alike each other than Avid. It definitely marches to its own drummer. It definitely took me a couple months to get the swing of it, then I started to understand the real power of it, and then I couldn't stand to work on anything else. Now I'm a dyed in the wool Avid fanatic.

    As somebody else said, if you let go of your old way of thinking, and start using the tools in the way Avid provides them, take my word for it -- you'll eventually see the light (not to be too corny about about it...)

    About the only area I could see legitimate gripes about "the Avid way of doing things" was the fact that all media had to be imported into Avid's specified media folder. But now that they're working on AMA access to many more file types that gripe is now a thing of the past. Having said that: great power comes with great responsibility. We as editors will now be responsible for maintaining the integrity of our media when it comes to finishing. And this has been one of the biggest gripes of vendors that I know when it comes to competing systems. How many times have people come in to finish a show in FCP, with media linked to their desktop, or some DVD someplace?

    Anyway, take the plunge. If you let go of your preconceived notions and really dig into the keyboard shortcuts, I truly believe you'll one day understand the power and the beauty of it all.

    Chris

    MacPro 3.33Ghz 12 Core (Westmere, MacPro 5,1), 48Gb RAM, nVidia GeForce GTX 680, Intensity Pro (Desktop Video 10.4.3), OS X 10.13.6, MC 2018.12 [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, May 21 2010 11:49 AM In reply to

    • BarkinMadd
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    Re: clunky interface ?

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    Yon1 - you asked if you're missing something? I would say yes. I'm a long time Liquid user - loved it and used it form many years (since version 5). I decided to switch to MediaComposer when the original Liquid-to-MC promo was offered. There's no doubt that your workflow must change to adapt to the way MC was intended to be used and there are a few things that you'll certainly miss (such as background rendering and audio processing), but once you get the hang of it, MC is truly awsome (and with MC 5, the improvement to the audio processing removes one of the things I miss).

    I also find the workflow from edit to finished product producex superior results because of the QuickTime Reference export (something Liquid was never very good at - I spent years developing methods to export from Liquid so that I could encode externally with minimal generation loss - with MC this is a thing of the past).

    If you decide you want to learn the MC way of doing things, Douglas' tutorials are a very good way to get started (Douglas also came to MC from many years of experience with Liquid).

    Good luck!!!

    Camera(s) PXW-X70, HDR-FX1, Hero 6 Black | MC 18.12.1 | QT 7.7.9 | Continuum 2019 | Sapphire 2019 | Mocha Pro 2019 | Titler Pro 6 | Windows 10 Pro x64... [view my complete system specs]

    Steve

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  • Fri, May 21 2010 1:25 PM In reply to

    Re: clunky interface ?

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    conleec:
    It definitely took me a couple months to get the swing of it, then I started to understand the real power of it, and then I couldn't stand to work on anything else. Now I'm a dyed in the wool Avid fanatic.

    And here is the real core of this entire discussion. Keep an open mind, embrace a different workflow than you are used to, and when you master it, you'll be amazed at how incredibly productive you will be turning out work of higher and higher quality and complexity in a shorter and shorter amount of time, and you'll never look back.

     

    Newscutter Nitris DX 9.5.3.5 * Media Composer 5.5.3.6 (At Home on PC running XP Pro) * Symphony 6.5.2.1 (At home on MacBook Pro3,1 running 10.7.2) * Interplay... [view my complete system specs]

    Larry Rubin

    Senior Editor

    The Pentagon Channel

    www.pentagonchannel.mil

  • Fri, May 21 2010 2:35 PM In reply to

    • Jill
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    Re: clunky interface ?

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    I used Pinnacle Studio for several years and became very profficient. In the past few months I moved to Media Composer.  The user interface of MC seemed so strange and awkward to me at first.

    As my use and learning of MC increased, it became clear how much more powerful and professional it was, and that once you understand how things are done, how natural and easy it becomes.

    Jill

    Media Composer 7, Dell Studio XPS 435MT (i7-920), Windows 7 Professional 64bit, 15GB Ram, Nvidia Quadro FX 3800, QT 7.6.8, Canon HV30, Sony NEX-6. [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, May 22 2010 2:09 AM In reply to

    • Solopost
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    Re: clunky interface ?

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    Jill:
    it became clear how much more powerful and professional it was,

    But don't walk away, from this thread, thinking only this... this is not which is better. You can edit in both programs... they, basically, do the exact same job - just differently.

    Jill:
    and that once you understand how things are done, how natural and easy it becomes.

    This is possibly the best line in this entire thread... learn and understand. There are many users who have been using Avid since the early 1990's - coming from 3/4, Steenbeck, Moviola, or whatever format you worked on... Everyone went through the learning curve (and learning hatred)... but using Avid has become as natural as farting Stick out tongue

    Welcome to the world of MC... this forum is here to help, as long as you are open to listen. And with your opening query here... it seems you will fit in quite well with the natives. Yes

    SYS# 1- MC6.5 Mac Pro 2xQuad-Core Intel 3.2Ghz 18Gb Ram OS 10.7.5 2Tb storage (mixed SATA/1394/1394b) SYS# 2- MC6.5 Macbook Pro 2.8Ghz (mid-2009) 4Gb... [view my complete system specs]

    My Two Cents .02
    Kent Brockman

  • Sat, May 22 2010 8:24 AM In reply to

    Re: clunky interface ?

    Locked Contact

    I actually agree w/ the OP for the most part. MC is a great tool, no doubt, but there is a certain level of kludginess to the interface that is not a benefit to the program. Some of it has to do with the facts that it was originally written for the Mac, which didn't have right-click until relatively recently.

    Here's a list of I think pretty reasonable interface complaints that have nothing to do with the "Avid way of doing things:"

    1. Right click is underpowered, and the list it does bring up can be somewhat arbitrary.

    2. When renaming a clip, after pressing Enter, the clip name below is highlighted and edited with any subsequent key strokes. (Using the numeric keypad Enter does not do this, but this should be the default behavior of the Enter key above the right Shift key.)

    3. Windows cannot be set to dock or automatically resize. This is appalling. I know of no other program of any value that can't dock and auto size its own windows. My solution was to get another videocard and hook up two more monitors. So who needs to worry about efficient window management when you have four monitors? But for those using laptops or don't want extra monitors, the current window management is absurd.

    4. Related to "3," frames don't automatically resize in Frame view. I have to use a Ctrl+L/K and Fill to Windows to do what should be done automatically. This just wastes my time and tries my patience.

    5. Play stops when you adjust the volume. WTF?? This is very annoying. My solution was to get an external desktop volume control that's used in speech labs to adjust the level of the volume going to my speakers. But this should be fixed in the software.

    6. Related to "5," play automatically stops when I start working on something else in MC. This is very annoying. There should be a user option to enable/disable this behavior. When you are showing a sequence to someone, it would be very nice to have the sequence continue to play while your fiddling around with the rest of the program.

    7. Effects editing can be a PITA b/c you can't disable Avid effects like you can Boris effects. Stepping In/Out or saving the effect to a bin is not always a good workaround.

    8. Vectorscope/waveform/etc. are not realtime and don't have display gain.

    9. Avid's media management is rock solid, but files are cryptically named (I know this part of the MXF way of doing things) and put in folders that bear no resemblance to their projects.

    Fixing these types of issues would not change the great things about the way MC does things. But it would make the interface easier to work with. People who've worked with Avid for years probably may not even notice these things anymore. But they are annoying and don't add anything useful to Media Composer.

    "When I spent 60k on a discreet edit digisuite system 10 years ago someone came up to me to offer fcp 2, I said it was a scam too." -Ric

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