Again, you are talking about the past and not giving Avid credit for seeing what is going on. It's up to the company to look at the demands for an affordable finishing system that competes with an app like color and step up to the plate. I know that this is on the minds and meetings In the halls of Tewks but we just need to see what comes of it. There are many many holes in the color workflow and it's up to the Product Managers at Avid to take advantage of those.

I am anxious to see how they address it in the future.

Maybe it is a confidence thing, people see new developments new markets new ways of doing things but they are not very confident that Avid will deliver the tools needed and people need to protect their own business hence looking at other products.

NICKB:

Maybe it is a confidence thing, people see new developments new markets new ways of doing things but they are not very confident that Avid will deliver the tools needed and people need to protect their own business hence looking at other products.

So AMA and multiple resolutions on a timeline from Avid are not considered new developments?  c'mon...

My Point too Scott. I often feel that a lot of us are still "Covering Up" from being beaten for so long by the proverbial stick of inaction and we aren't giving credence to the strides that Avid is starting (notice I say starting. Still looking for the momentum to pick up) to make.

switthaus:

So AMA and multiple resolutions on a timeline from Avid are not considered new developments?  c'mon...

 

Of course they are and Avid has had a great year catching up but it does not feel like it is leading the industry and reading the Avid DS board on google it seems to me they sound nervous for the products future and that will not help DS sales.

And what's the price difference between MC and Symphony to add secondary CC about $15k ?

NICKB:

And what's the price difference between MC and Symphony to add secondary CC about $15k ?

well, you're playing my song there....merge the two products, and sell it for about $5,000?  Or make the Symphony CC an option to add on to MC soft?  Might as well go for the gusto, eh?

Scott (getting hammered by a nor'easter on the chesapeake bay)

The majority of my work is CC. While mixed frame rates will help occasionally, it has nearly no impact compared to giving me a better CC toolset. But I am a teeny part of Avid's market, hence the resources aren't committed as intensely there. I don't expect it to change as any company in existence has to cater to their largest customer base with the largest commitment. 

In the last ten years, Avid has gone from 4 to 8 buckets in the CC. They rearranged the windows when it went HD. (They also took away the hardware legalizer at that point)

They did add the chroma gain control in the curves window, and a slight ability to adjust luma in the secondaries.

There you have it. Ten years worth of advancement in two sentences.

Now show me how that says Avid feels this is a significant part of their market.

Now Isis on the other hand....

switthaus:

NICKB:

I take the opposite view from switthaus, my gut tells me this could be a significant moment in our business i am certainly interested in buying one subject to the details of cours

 

We shall see.  I see Smoke as a niche type product with a narrow market (that "needs" what smoke brings that you can't get on other softwares) and a very steep learning curve...far steeper than Avid, FCP and even DS.  So, unless you have a smoke editor already on staff, its gonna be a while before you are very quick on it.

I agree.  We shall see how this goes down.  Indeed, a steep learning curve (in part due to the compositing tools) equating into high level of client expectations from a smoke artist/editor.  

NICKB:

...my gut tells me this could be a significant moment in our business i am certainly interested in buying one subject to the details of course

I feel the same. If offered for 15k, and as an standalone app without any flare-like ties, then this could definitely cause a huge splash specifically in the boutique style FCP/AE market with the creative types.  Or this very well could just turn out to be absolutely nothing for non-smoke houses and FCP/AE based places.

You may find this completely irrelevant, but I remember about ten years ago, back when an inferno sys cost about $800,000 hitting the million mark easily after everything said and done, discreet had introduced combustion with pretty much non-stripped full fledged modules (keyer, tracker/stabilizer, color corrector) pulled straight out of flame/inferno, and with resolution independence which FFI ddin't even offer back then.  And some thought, oh God, this is huge, what!?! for $3500 you are getting the same exact tools as flame, this is gonna kill the big guns and blah blah blah, and every one is just going to splurge the cash for it, etc etc.  And we all know what happened with it.  The AE crowd didnt even get past the interface, even after discreet dropped the price to only a grand.  But for some, combustion remained one of the best kept secrets for years.  Imagine the difference it would have made in sales if discreet had named it something like "flame lite" or something to that effect.

Fast forward ten years, now pretty much all of us in the biz are well aware of ffi, and for most of us its still way of out range in terms of budget, so certainly for some (whose niche can benefit from it) a 15k McSmoke (if it IS indeed 15k) would be an extremely attractive option.

TCurren:

The majority of my work is CC. While mixed frame rates will help occasionally, it has nearly no impact compared to giving me a better CC toolset.

TCurren, you can have that exact identical CC toolset for a grand in combustion, but you would have to cache in ram to be able to playback your footage.  the main CC module in FFI has been nearly untouched for about a decade now (probably more then a decade), and the color warper module has been around for several years now... and basically these two modules make up the cc toolset in smoke, flint, flame, and inferno, as well as in combustion.

Quite frankly I dont see this affecting Avid's base/market in any major sense.  FCP/AE based part of the biz however is more likely to be impacted by this.

switthaus:

So AMA and multiple resolutions on a timeline from Avid are not considered new developments?  c'mon...

Not only multiple res but multiple FRAME RATE. That is major. And (although I might be moaning about loss of certain functionality like quick time ref export and audio waveforms with AMA) being able to edit straight off a P2 card has saved me so much time and improved my product - only with Avid can you do this (afaik). Avid excels in big areas like this that really save time. Competing products cost me & producers time - e.g. tweak the opacity of a vignette on the top V layer on a 12 layer FCP timeline and weep at the full timeline re-render time...

Also can I thank Avid V4 for not deleting my transitions any more when I move a segment - it now takes them with it  More family time saved

D

Terry posted this to the Avid L, and I thought it would add to the conversation:

"You do not need to own another Smoke to buy one.

It will require the yearly service contract to keep it licensed.

It will be missing the higher end node based compositing tree which will
stay with the full Smoke for now."

Not the game changer everyone was all riled up about: a chopped off smoke, PLUS you have the always expensive (but admittedly good) Autodesk Support contract mandated. Maybe a good feeder to already installed smoke systems but I don't see a lot of boutiques racing out to purchase

Like I said, not much effect on the Avid user base and a ripple to the FCP users.  MHO, of course!

switthaus:

Terry posted this to the Avid L, and I thought it would add to the conversation:

"You do not need to own another Smoke to buy one.

It will require the yearly service contract to keep it licensed.

It will be missing the higher end node based compositing tree which will
stay with the full Smoke for now."

 

Not the game changer everyone was all riled up about: a chopped off smoke, PLUS you have the always expensive (but admittedly good) Autodesk Support contract mandated. Maybe a good feeder to already installed smoke systems but I don't see a lot of boutiques racing out to purchase

Like I said, not much effect on the Avid user base and a ripple to the FCP users.  MHO, of course!

 

Oh but it is a game changer.  The fact that Autodesk has decided to release a Mac application means the game has changed.  I would expect Flame and Lustre to go the same way in time prices dropping considerably over the next few years.

It won't belong before Avid have to drop Media Composer in favour of Symphony as their entry level product.

VGUK2:

It won't belong before Avid have to drop Media Composer in favour of Symphony as their entry level product.

The "race to the bottom" has been going on for years and Autoscreet realized they had to be involved.  A handicapped smoke is the first step, but they will realize they need to do more.  So this is nothing new, just another player in the "race".  Of course these low priced systems will further erode our ability to keep rates at present levels.

As far as creating one MC-based product, I have been asking for that for years.  It just makes sense.

Maybe Autodesk believe in the Final Cut Pro Extreme rumour that has re surfaced recently.

It is also possible that Autodesk mess up on this release demanding a $10000 a year support contract and crippling the release.

More details needed but they may have messed up the viral marketing campaign if they have set expectations to high and fail to deliver. We shall see next week.

In other unrelated news, or is it?  Waler Murch has ditched Final Cut Pro for Avid on his latest movie!

NICKB:

It is also possible that Autodesk mess up on this release demanding a $10000 a year support contract and crippling the release.

As I understand, it will be sub 5K.

TCurren:

As I understand, it will be sub 5K.

....and you have to get it to keep the license active...no choice.