Latest post Mon, Sep 17 2012 8:15 PM by DIESELE. 78 replies.
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  • Sun, Oct 25 2009 5:58 PM

    • DIESELE
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    No Quick time Ref export poss when using AMA?? Really?

    John MCEnroe mode on > you can not be serious!<

    I've always exported quick time ref's to Sorenson etc from P2 media.  Media that's put into avid as virtual drives using the 'old' import P2 function availible pre V 3.5

    Now I've just upped to Avid V4 with AMA and it NO LONGER DOES THIS?  It wont export an SD QT Ref?

    I now have to do a mixdown etc just to get a QTR out?

    Please tell me I'm doing something wrong or this V4 is going back.  Looks like a massive loss of functionality in return for the useful hanging of virtual drives functionality.

    D

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  • Sun, Oct 25 2009 7:52 PM In reply to

    • BarkinMadd
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    Re: No Quick time Ref export poss when using AMA?? Really?

    When you used to import P2, did it convert the video to a DNxHD codec during the import? Just curious.

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    Steve

  • Sun, Oct 25 2009 8:36 PM In reply to

    • DIESELE
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    Re: No Quick time Ref export poss when using AMA?? Really?

    No mate - this aint FCP!  The beauty of Avid is that you can edit immediately and straight off the P2 card or the HDD you offloaded to.  Having to mixdown or transcode now at the output stage is a real sting in the tail and kills the whole Avid advantage in filebased/tapeless workflow and the ethos for me.

    Hope I'm doing something wronmg here...?

    D

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  • Sun, Oct 25 2009 8:47 PM In reply to

    • DIESELE
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    Re: No Quick time Ref export poss when using AMA?? Really?

    " Quicktime reference exports cannot be performed on clips linked via AMA or on sequences containing media linked via AMA".

    Please say it aint so!

    D

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  • Sun, Oct 25 2009 8:49 PM In reply to

    • BobRusso
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    Re: No Quick time Ref export poss when using AMA?? Really?

    With AMA volumes, the media will need to be consolidated to export a QuickTime reference file. You can turn off AMA and the traditional Clips to Bin command can be used.

     

     

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  • Sun, Oct 25 2009 9:19 PM In reply to

    • BLKDOG
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    Re: No Quick time Ref export poss when using AMA?? Really?

    As Bob says, you need to first consolidate your AMA clips. When you did this with P2, did you use the "import P2 media" function when bringing in your media? If so, it's the same as considating your AMA clips. Conversely, you could turn off AMA and use the P2 as you always have.

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  • Sun, Oct 25 2009 9:51 PM In reply to

    Re: No Quick time Ref export poss when using AMA?? Really?

    DIESELE:
    I've always exported quick time ref's to Sorenson etc from P2 media.  Media that's put into avid as virtual drives using the 'old' import P2 function availible pre V 3.5

    If this is a massive loss in functionality then please consider that the "old" method is still available in v3.5 and v4.0. Simply turn off AMA in your project settings, then relauch the application. Import P2 Clips/Media are there again.

    Then you're not using AMA, and it works like it used to. AMA gives you some advantages, but apparently brings up other issues. Fortunately, you still have a choice.

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  • Mon, Oct 26 2009 12:54 AM In reply to

    Re: No Quick time Ref export poss when using AMA?? Really?

    As was pointed out above, (I'm just adding here for emphasis). 

    QTref files reference the media that is created during capture or import and is linked to their respective Master Clips.  When using AMA, you're not creating any media, thus have nothing to reference. 

    It's quite logical.

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  • Mon, Oct 26 2009 1:27 AM In reply to

    • BarkinMadd
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    Re: No Quick time Ref export poss when using AMA?? Really?

    BLKDOG:

    As Bob says, you need to first consolidate your AMA clips. When you did this with P2, did you use the "import P2 media" function when bringing in your media? If so, it's the same as considating your AMA clips. Conversely, you could turn off AMA and use the P2 as you always have.

    This is why I asked my previous question. When you "import P2 media" it consolidates - so does it put a QT wrapper around the P2 media or does Avid really work with P2 files copied directly to the Avid MediaFiles folder?

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  • Mon, Oct 26 2009 1:39 AM In reply to

    • BLKDOG
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    Re: No Quick time Ref export poss when using AMA?? Really?

    The P2 files are not copied directly they are rewrapped but not in a QT wrapper. They are rewrapped in an MXF wrapper.

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  • Mon, Oct 26 2009 4:57 AM In reply to

    • Mondo
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    Re: No Quick time Ref export poss when using AMA?? Really?

    Kenton.VanNatten:

    As was pointed out above, (I'm just adding here for emphasis). 

    QTref files reference the media that is created during capture or import and is linked to their respective Master Clips.  When using AMA, you're not creating any media, thus have nothing to reference. 

    It's quite logical.

     

     

    Kenton I understand this, but couldn't Avid create an intermediate handler (or master clip or frameserver or whatever you want to call it) to point the QTRef to the media in the P2 directory? Of course that is where it may break down:) Can QT decode P2 media natively or does it need to be transcoded?

    I hope the OP is now OK with the workflow, because unless you have no desire to archive, sooner or later you have to pull that media off your P2 card anyway. Probably better to use the old method and import it at the beginning. AMA- Avid should issue a warning: use it at your own risk.

     

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  • Mon, Oct 26 2009 5:58 AM In reply to

    Re: No Quick time Ref export poss when using AMA?? Really?

    Mondo:
    because unless you have no desire to archive, sooner or later you have to pull that media off your P2 card anyway. Probably better to use the old method and import it at the beginning. AMA- Avid should issue a warning: use it at your own risk.
    As long as you keep a folder structure AMA understands you can put your P2/ XDCAM footage anywhere.

     

    Old way or AMA, for me, you copy the files from card/disk to harddrives immediately they are shot just to be prudent.  Having done this AMA is much faster from this point especially if playing tom air or output to tape via an Avid IO.  For file based output to third party encoders a simple transcode or mixdown of just the final sequence is still a very quick option IMO.

    The ADDED benefit of AMA is instant access from the original cards if a News type turnaround is required. After several experieces with AMA I would now say you are more at risk by NOT using AMA when you work with file based media.

    FWIW Avid has several Podcasts about file based media available that could inspire some creative thinking of how to establish the best workflow for your needs.

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  • Mon, Oct 26 2009 7:31 AM In reply to

    • DIESELE
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    Re: No Quick time Ref export poss when using AMA?? Really?

    I'm extremely dissapointed by this - I paid for the upgrade soley to gain the AMA functionality and now have to switch it OFF as it has a massive limitations on export.  What once took 10" to export as a QTR can now take 20 mins of hands off downtime and fills up the disks with mixdowns and complicates with additional A&V mixdown sequences and versions.

    Kenton.VanNatten:
    As was pointed out above, (I'm just adding here for emphasis). 

    QTref files reference the media that is created during capture or import and is linked to their respective Master Clips.  When using AMA, you're not creating any media, thus have nothing to reference. 

    It's quite logical.

    As my workflow hasnt changed Pre/Post AMA I find it quite ILLOGICAL!  The media really does exist on drives - it is not ethereal!!! It surely can be referenced and re-wrapped quickly (as before) if needed?

    Also I thought that as my P2 files are already MXF there is no re-wrapping going on for editing - I am doing multicam DVC Pro straight off an external firewire drive after all (one of the massive advantages over FCP too)  These drives I'm using have media I exported straight from the camera.  It is (or rather was) a beautiful workflow for me but (pre AMA) was a pain to have to 'point' the project bins to the drive/folder/P2 clips every time I re-booted the PC.

    It is inevitable that I produce quick simple MP4's of ongoing work for many clients so I guess its 'AMA off' and back to 'Import P2 clips to bin' for me as well as the discipline of ME having to remember what everything is and where it actually lives each time I fire her up.  I am very dissapointed.

    D

     

    PS Ohh and whilst I'm having a good moan I cant freeze frame now either (separate thread)...

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  • Mon, Oct 26 2009 8:02 AM In reply to

    • Mondo
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    Re: No Quick time Ref export poss when using AMA?? Really?

    Perhaps what I should have said is AMA is risky if you don't understand it. We talk to a broad community of Avid editors here and many just don't understand how AMA works. So the first time someone edits directly from the P2 or SxS cards and then hands them back to the cameraman without consolidating and wonders why his media went offline they are going to blame Avid. Andrew and many others here know Avid inside out, so can establish a "safe" workflow with AMA, but I really wish Avid hadn't decided to default the application to this mode.

    By using AMA and the method Andrew described you are bypassing the Avid database for media management - IMO a yet to be proven workflow. You also have to mixdown or consolidate at the end of the edit - so where has that time saving gone to? If your files don't relink automatically are you going to know how to fix it? Can you rebuild the metadata automatically if it gets corrupted? Ok I'm paranoid :)

    One thing is for sure - we can't treat expensive media (SxS, P2) like tape so incorporating backups into your workflow at the aquisition point is critical no matter how you decide to do it. 

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  • Mon, Oct 26 2009 8:05 AM In reply to

    • DIESELE
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    Re: No Quick time Ref export poss when using AMA?? Really?

    BLKDOG:

    The P2 files are not copied directly they are rewrapped but not in a QT wrapper. They are rewrapped in an MXF wrapper.

    I dont think that is the case for Panasonic P2 flavours.  Whether I shoot AVC-I, DVC Pro or DV they are all .MXF and I can edit straight off the card.

    Does it re-wrap when consolidating only maybe?

    D

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