Guys,

I was wondering if there's an MC Lite kind of thing out there that I don't know about.

Let me explain...

I just demo-ed ScriptSync to our Producers and they loved it, but pointed out that the main problem for them is that they normally make "paper edit" scripts for their programmes from TC-ed quicktimes of the rushes or proxies.  This is what they give to the Editors to make their assembles from.  So, in essense, the Editors don't ever see the original transcripts, only the Script, so in this case ScriptSync really isn't all that useful (maybe if ScriptSync could Matchback to another script it was linked to...  Now that would be cool!).

Anyway, one of the Producers pointed out that at the minute, the assemble process is actually done twice: a paper edit by the Producer, then this is repliacted by the Editor in the suite.

Is there an MC Lite aimed at Producers?  I know there's Interplay Assist, but as far as I can see you have to have Interplay to get this.  Is that correct?

Either way, this is kind of way more than they would need.  They just want to be able to make rough assembles of sync.

If there was an MC Lite, which just had Bins, Monitors, a Timeline and the ability to Over-Write, Insert, Lift and Cut - and maybe add Locators then that would be cool.

Maybe this is out there already, and I know Interplay Assist does this is way.

Any ideas?

Ra-ey

ps.  And back to my original point, it would have to have ScriptSync, which is far more useful to Producers than Editors working on Documentaries.

EDIT: I changed the original thread title from 'MC Lite?' for clarity.

I think I first raised this idea in '93

Then this was one of the functions Xpress DV was supposed to address. A very cheap (at the time) workflow into online MC's and higher.

But many buying Avid DV for that function constantly wanted more, so we moved to Pro and yet still more was wanted so it got scrapped and MC was made available at severely reduced prices.

Yeah, I see what you mean, but what I'm suggesting in really a glorified viewer.

More and more these days Producers are doing "paper edits" out of the suites, and I think a simple assemble timeline with no other funtionality other than those I suggested above would be a massive incentive you use an Avid workflow over FCP - where you can still get FCP Express for a similar thing.

If they made this and gave it away for free, I think that would be amazing.  No one could complain about reduced functionalty if they didn't pay for it.

The reduced price of MC is amazing, but way too much for a producer who just wants to be able to do 2 things: watch footage and assemble.

Ra-ey

Originally I suggested a variant of Avid Media Logger, Or variant on the old shotlister

Nowdays FW? for machine control with Medialogger interface combining with Windows movie maker/ iMovie /Sony clip player type replay and a tab deliniated file  for a simple paper edit printout with batch import possibilities.

Or easier still for Avid a simple drag and drop timeline with one video track and 4? audio tracks? Like the simple free one in Red Cine.

AndrewAction:

Or easier still for Avid a simple drag and drop timeline with one video track and 4? audio tracks? Like the simple free one in Red Cine.

Exactly, that's all it needs.  No export funtionality or effects.

A bin, timeline, monitors, basic mark in / out and cutting tools.

They wouldn't need any machine control, assuming people will be using proxies or already digitised material copied onto the system.

I do think to make it a killer they could add Locators and ScriptSync.  But that would be shooting for the moon.

Ra-ey

They used to offer FreeDV, but again - it was pretty limited and ran only on PC's, and people who had it constantly clammored for "more features" to be added.  Because Avid gave it away, there was little to no development put into it. 

Kenton,

You are right, and FreeDV if memory serves was a nightmare.

My point is that this had way too much functionality.  Essentially it was a hobbled version of MC.  Apart from annoying people it would probably scare off Producers even now.

If you had an ultra simple layout with very few buttons / funtionality - as Andrew suggests, a Timeline, 1 Video 4 Audio Tracks - then most people would be able to get ther head around it very quickly.

As for the no money for development argument, well the Old Thinkng Avid would have said that: why bother, what do we get out of it.  Hopefully a New Thinking Avid would relaise that ultimately, the more people who use your product in any capacity, the more people will want to stick with what they know.  The whole FCP getting them young at school and giving it away for nothing philospophy worked pretty well for Apple.

I know there have been various incarnations of a stripped down MC, but these have all been aimed at Editors, not Producers.

More and more rough edits are being done by them on their laptops BEFORE they even walk into a suite.

As Editors we might not like that, it scares us, but that's the reality.

If Avid doesn't recognise this and provide Producers with a tool they can use, somebody else will (i.e. FCP).

Ra-ey

Free DV caused an enormous problem for Avid, as I understand it, in terms of support and other end user issues... it was incredible how giving something away for free caused such a burden by users who plagued Avid with complaints, looking for free technical support, and other issues (downloading, system compatibility inquiries, etc). It sounded good on paper.

I expect that the hidden/variable costs of any software (regardless of its purposed limits and intended "convenience" for the user base) offering can be considerable. The bottom line is that no good deed goes unpunished.

Quantel always used to work on the basis that everything was inside the box you bought, but you only got to use the features  you had paid for, the rest were locked. IIRC you could rent the extra layers for a period, rather than having to upgrade the whole system for ever (like renting Genarts plug-ins).

Seems to me that this isn't a bad model to follow. I occasionally use the 'evaluation' copy to look at files at home - can't quite justify £2K for MC for home use (as most of the people who pay me already have SN / ISIS / Interplay etc). But if it were £500 partially disabled I'd have no problem. And if I could then rent extra features as I needed them (scriptsync, > 4 audio tracks, VO tool, DVE, whatever) then that could work too. Seems like if I used them enough then it would make financial sense to stump up the extra $$.

It would make sense for the access to those extra features to be available for 'evaluation' for a number of uses before being locked out. Or bundle them with 'support' contracts.

Food for thought.

What you really want is a viewer/logger that would work with OMF/MXF files like Digital Heaven's MovieLogger does with QT ( http://www.digital-heaven.co.uk/movielogger ).

- Oliver

Adman, I see your point about FreeDV and the only reason I suggested a stripped down version of MC was to make the work involved in making it a minimum.  I guessed that taking an existing piece of software and removing things would be eaiser than starting from scratch.  Maybe by doing this I confused the matter, but I think Oliver has his the nail on the head.

I really think there should be an Avid purpose built Viewer/Logger/Assembler (with all the features I mentioned earlier) but directly aimed at Producers/Directors.  And it should be free.

I think this software should only be able to save Sequences/Bins (and not export EDLs etc...).  This would encourage people to stay within the Avid environment, especially if they were using the actual Offline quality MXF files of the Edit.  This would mean that a Producer could essentially prep a program BEFORE paying for a suite and walk into the Edit hitting the ground running.  Saving them time and money.  This, on a basic level, would be far more important to them and a Production Manager than anything else.  Half the reason I believe FCP has taken such gains in the market is the ability for Producers to buy FCP Express for $200 and do prep in their own time.

I know from conversations with our Producers, who are probably far more tech savvy than many in the past, they would love to be able to do their own sync assembles, rather then - as I mentioned earlier - have to create a paper edit and have it re-done in the Edit.

Now of course there would be some money involved in making it, but once made it should need minimum updates to it and, hopefully, support after it became stable.

This is not a way for people who didn't/couldn't buy the full Avid to get their hands on it and play around (like FreeDV was).  This is no longer needed, with the demo and cheap academic rates anyway.

This should be, as Oliver suggests, a purpose built tool for a very specific purpose.

In this respect Avid could be pro-active rather than re-active, as it has been in the past.

There's clearly a gap in the Post process that I think Avid could easily fill and benefit from it immensely.

Ra-ey

I suggest that you write up a brief on it and put it in the Feature Request forum...

Adman, I will take your advice.

Ra-ey

There was/is Medialog, or something like that, which comes with MC. The problem is it can only be used with a deck with RS-424 connection.

Maybe it is time for developing a new version for a file based workflow.

Hear hear...Sorry for going OT here...

Adman, FreeDV was stopped actually due to its succes???? The fact that you got the feetback, good or bad, is a very good indication that people are using your software.

It's ironic to see now what avid does with the price of the acadamic version to try to reverse the uprise of FCP in the educational market. Keeping free DV (by now also free DV/AVCHD) back then could have had a drastic influence in your current market share today. 

But its not too late to revive this, which make this OT again. A free "low res" editor for offline and the editor/producer that wants to work with "consumer" video.

If FCP can be succesfull without the great support team... what do we learn from that?