Thank you all for the replies.

I am now considering the choice between:

1) BVW-D75P with SDI in/out (Does the "D" refer to the SDI or something else?)

2) UVW-1800P

Having never had a BetaSP deck, what sort of maintenance would those two decks need?

e.g. Monthly head clean with cleaning tape? Any particular head cleaning tape?

What about head changes? Because changing the heads in Thailand would be very expensive.

As a side note, the Thai TV stations use BetaSP as their main format and it appears that they won't be upgrading soon. However, I am looking into this. For the time being though, TV commercials are delivered as BetaSP regardless of what the actual master may be and the Thai Censor Board require they view the edits on a BetaSP tape. So for this country at the moment it isn't obsolete and the decks have a reasonable high value on the second hand market.

As for cleaning the heads I suggest You don't do it on a regular base: a cleaning tape is like "sandpaper" and the life of Your heads will shorten the more You clean them; Your eyes will tell when cleaning is needed. And talking of head life, in my own experience the head of the 1800 is certified by Sony for 2000 hours, and when the 2000 hours are over You have to replace it, while the head of the 75 lasts longer than its nominal duration. What to buy is Your decision, is the saving huge buying the 1800 instead of the 75? Would You invest whatever You save in a good monitor, an Avid I/O box, a sync generator, or scopes or whatever You may possibly need? If money is not a problem I'd go for the 75. You may want to add to the price of the 1800/2800 (if You go for it) the cost of a mod for 4 audio tracks. And don't forget to get a Rosetta stone or a Keyspan to remote that deck!

If you have to record Beta-SP and you have money to maintain it, get yourself a BVW-D75PS. I have one and its technically by far the best machine cause internal processing is digital. But be warned not only are these machines EOL, Sony has also stopped manufacturing parts for beta SP machines. Cause there is demand for drums, some companies start refurbishing drums but I advice you to stay away....

The most reliable machine of your list is the PVW-2800p and is also a lot cheaper to maintain but only 2ch audio and no audio PPM meters.

But I basically suggest these machines are all send to a electronics recycling company. Anybody still using them (and here in Greece they do) is wasting money on machines that, in the condition you find them with blown capacitors, broken filters and a form of glue used to mount parts that starts conducting after 10 years, give you a picture quality closer to VHS then mini DV. Running cost are the highest of any format on the market.

I strongly advice you to convince whoever you have to deliver your material to get a digital deck or player. I prefer even a Western digital WD TV over beta-SP tape and that only cost about $99,- 

 

Thanks Luca and Jveekeres.

A dealer had e-mailed me a reply about the BVW-D75P (SDI in/out) deck.

"The only issue with the bvwD75P is yes they are SDI but the audio is only
AES (not analog audio) so sometimes not an advantage"

Does this mean that for this deck I can only get audio out of the edit suite and recorded via AES audio connections? So any edit suite that has only Component and Stereo audio out (RCA connections) won't be able to record the audio?

(I have e-mailed a reply and asked for more information, however independent knowledge from this forum is appreciated).

Also, how do I interpret these drum hours?

3x sony BVW75P recordrs (1 reading 000x1 drum hours, another approx 20x10
drum hours)
8x sony UVW1800P recorders, 1 with very low 2x10 drum hours from new, others
range from 20x10 upwards

Does anyone know if there is any reason why I should avoid the UVW-1400AP as a backup deck or for running off copies for the censor? What does the AP stand for? (P for PAL, A = ?)

Thank you.

Puddy:

The only issue with the bvwD75P is yes they are SDI but the audio is only
AES (not analog audio)

Forgive me Puddy, I always had an assistant to connect the deck and I didn't even know that, but Yes, I'm afraid that AES only means AES only!

Puddy:

So any edit suite that has only Component and Stereo audio out (RCA connections) won't be able to record the audio?

Ask the dealer if the deck has component in, and I regret to tell You that RCA audio would be useless even with a deck with analog inputs: You'll need an unbalanced to balanced (and viceversa for input) audio converter, as beta decks have XLR audio connectors.

Puddy:

Also, how do I interpret these drum hours?

It's kind of cryptic: the display on the deck usually reads: Drum: 1234, I assume that 20x10=200, but why the dealer doesn't write a straight 200? And what does it mean 000x1? ...cryptic!

Puddy:

Does anyone know if there is any reason why I should avoid the UVW-1400AP as a backup deck or for running off copies for the censor?

Don't remeber the details but that's a stripped down 1800, it may lack some connectivity or the serial port, it was a cheaper alternative to the 1800, and Sony pulled something off of the deck to bring the price down.

Forget and forgive if I dare but I seem to understand that You'd be better off buying a second hand Adrenaline and a 1800, or a Nitris DX and a 75, or any combination of these four pieces of hardware.

Thanks Luca.

I'll see what the seller replies to those cryptic numbers. Obviously he's an engineer!

The UVW-1400P lacks being able to plug in a controller (I think) plus a few other things. But it still records and that would be fine for tapes going out to the Censor board.

I need to go do some research next week on what the broadcasters are planning to do about the future of their format of choice. And also check up on where to replace the heads if they wear out and what that costs. Otherwise, outsourcing may be a good idea and using the cheaper UVW-1400AP simply to send BetaSP tapes to the Censor Board - because these things tend to be in a hurry for TV commercials here.

Lets see where I get to.

i too have a few clients that only accept beta sp for commericials so rather than spend a ton of money for old tech i just have a dubbing house localy make copys and sp dubs from a firestore or a p2 card done deal charge the client and no old equipment on my shelf next to all my akai samplers or mini disc's or sd cameras 3 of them or beta sp bvw35 dont play catch up stay ahead of the curve and let them catch up

jveekeres:

The most reliable machine of your list is the PVW-2800p

I agree. I have three of them. The first, I purchased used 15 years ago.  The second and third were purchased new from B&H right after they were EOL. Other than routine maintenance and head changes you would expect on a machine you use every single day for over 15 years, it's still as snappy as the new ones. Great investment. Also, in my experience, the vast majority of stations around the USA anyway, still want BetaSP. I also have three 1800's. They have required more frequent maintenance than the 2800's.

Good Luck,

So how much does a BetaSP deck go for these days?

 

A Fuji tape guy at IBC expo the other week said tape has about another 2 years left except for HDCAM / HDCAM SR

NICKB:

So how much does a BetaSP deck go for these days?

That's highly Dependant on condition. I have found UVW-1800, PVW-2800 and even BVW-70 recorders for a few euros. Only the BVW-75 and BVW-d75ps are still worth some money. A BVW-d75ps in "new" condition will sell for about 4000,- euro maximum but you can get your hands on a reasonably good one for about 2000,-. Just check on ebay.

But I would never invest a single dollar or euro in 15 year old equipment that will cost me serious money to maintain it. It is 2009... we are trying to go tapeless.

Puddy,

If you have no choice due to local market demands, get yourself a PVW-2800p. Have it checked by a qualified Sony service engineer after you get it. Don't try to save on pinch roller and head cleaning roller. Replacing these is part of normal service, like oil in a car.

Parts that are known to break down and need replacement are: drum (every 1500-2000 hours), tape tension arms, tape reel motors and capstan motor. It is important that you are very careful with the tapes you use. Stay away from Fuji tape. Only use Sony and Maxwell to maximize drum life. Don't use any tapes that are older then 4-5 years. Don't use tapes that have not been kept at room temperature. Then remove any stickers that are bigger then the "sticker space" on the tape housing. This will save you a lot of money on tape elevator replacement.

Good luck.

 

 

Not too expensive then.

 Puddy is doing commercials and i guess only going to BetaSP for mastering 30 scecond commercials so his machine will get very light use so if he gets a good one he may never have to service it as long as he keeps it clean.

Puddy Just make sure you get your money back as fast as possible as the secondhand value will plummet once your broadcaster announces a new delivery format.

Thanks for all that information and advice. Very useful.

I have found a couple of UVW-1800P with 20 hours and 200 hours of use since new. I think these would be great. The dealer pointed out these are fanless and so are quiet if they sit in an edit room. I don't think I'd turn it on during editing though.

I've found a BVW-75P for £550 (US $880). Is this too low? The battery on the hours meter is flat but I'm told it's in good condition. From this I'm going to have to judge if I trust the dealer but at least he's from a registered company in the UK. I may get this one. But one of his BVW-75P's has a drum reading of 000x1. He explained that a reading of "20x10" means 200 hours but the 000x1 confuses me from his example. He replies daily including weekends so hopefully Monday I will get a reply to that reading's interpretation.

At the moment my expected usage should be low. 30 second TV commercials. Perhaps about four to six TV programme runs of about an hour each a month. Rarely capture. Perhaps may advertise a transfer service but wouldn't expect this to be a serious part of the business.

From what has been said, it seems that in use, the maintenance is low and only clean heads when noise becomes visible. The heads need changing every 1500 to 2000 hours depending on ? How do I know the heads must be changed? Other than that, it seems not too bad, right? (Apart from the format just dying out and leaving me with dead hardware).

If you are only going to lightly use the deck the UVW-1800 should be fine. They are pretty durable. If you expect to use the deck for many hours per day recording and playing back, then I would go with the PVW-2800, they are pretty much indestructible. I used a single 2800 for eight years and the only thing it ever required was one drum replacement after almost 2000 hours of drum usage. We never had any other mechanical or electronic problems with it.

 

Thank LewS. I've gotten hold of a PDF that looks like a scan of a brochure from Sony. The one about the PVW-2800P is ranting about how it is easy to maintain. I am beginning to think that perhaps the PVW-2800P would be easier and therefore in theory cheaper to have maintenance work done in comparison to a BVW-75P.

At the moment, I'm also considering buying both a used BVW-75P and a PVW-2800P and after having a good play to see which I like best, sell the one I don't want. It looks like they retain good value here in Thailand on the second hand market. I think I already mentioned I'll be purchasing my deck from the UK. 

On the BVW-75P, do the audio connections have to be Ch-1 and Ch-3; Ch-2 and Ch-4 for AFC? So if I wanted my stereo audio output to tape avoiding AFC, would that mean connecting up Ch-1 and Ch-3?

Also what is catching my attention are the controls for Chroma and Black Level. How should these be set? Am I going to need scopes to look at these or is the preset fine already? I am guessing the UVW-1800P doesn't have these controls.

Which leads me to wonder about color correction and output to tape. Is it possible that although the color correcting was done with legal levels but the VTR not properly calibrated? What happens in the case of a UVW-1800P?

Finally though, I'm bringing the choice down to the BVW-75P versus the PVW-2800P.

I know I ask a lot of questions, just had some good coffee so that sure gets the brain ticking over, but I really appreciate all your help. Thanks everyone.

Just had this in an e-mail from a dealer. Would like an independent opinion on this:

"PVW-2800P hours are unknown as batteries on the hour meters are flat but all have great pictures recording and playback so hours are low"

Is this possible to guess (by an expert)?Thanks.