Abeyta:

Does the new mix and match feature replace Universal Mastering?

I haven't seen mix and match in action yet so I don't know what the limitations are.

I guess the question is, what can Universal Mastering do that mix and match can't? 

TCurren:

No extra features... bend over.

It's just like the Adrenaline fiasco a few years back. MC soft upgrade: $495. MC Adrenaline upgrade: $995 - even though it was the EXACT same software. This time the EXACT same feature upgrades cost $500 more for Symphony users. By the way, a support contract for Symphony is a grand more than MC - so Symphony users get it on both ends. Bend over indeed!

Universal Mastering means that you can take any 23/24/25p SD or HD project and output as 23/24/25/29 p or i SD or HD during Digital Cut, including necessary speed changes.

Mix and match allows you to use different framerates within the same project, and it will adjust motion adapters on clips that don't match the sequence frame rate.

With UM, if you need to deliver a PAL 25p broadcast master from a 23.98p project, you do a Digital Cut at 25fps, speeding it up ±4%.

If you would need to deliver the same master using M&M, you would not easily achieve this. If you would open your 23.98p sequence in a 50i or 25p project, M&M would autochange the playback speed of the clips in the timeline, so that realtime remains realtime. Which will not give you a generally accepted broadcast master.

I'm sorry, but this is outrageous IMHO. Symphony users have been neglected for so long but continue to admirably hang in there with Avid.

For the initial price they pay for Symphony (what is the price now for a new Symphony anyway?) they still have to pay MORE for an upgrade w/ no new Symphony only features? This upgrade cost them as much as the entire Final Cut Studio suite.

This is very poor treatment of the loyal and helpful user base. It lends to the belief that Avid gives mostly lip service to Symphony users.

I'm well aware that Avid has been losing money and downsizing, but this pricing seems horribly penny wise and pound foolish. Taking into account the users who will just pass on the upgrade and those who will jump ship to FCP, esp. since that's where an industry fueled by Red seems to be going, I wouldn't be surprised if the net effect of this pricing is just further pissed-off Symphony users. And that only weakens Avid's already tenuous place in the finishing world.

BobbyMurcerFan:

what is the price now for a new Symphony anyway

Job ter Burg:

BobbyMurcerFan:

what is the price now for a new Symphony anyway

I believe Symphony /w Nitris DX is around 6K more than MC w/ Nitris DX. At least, list price.

I think that was included in the equation.

BobbyMurcerFan:

For the initial price they pay for Symphony (what is the price now for a new Symphony anyway?) they still have to pay MORE for an upgrade w/ no new Symphony only features? This upgrade cost them as much as the entire Final Cut Studio suite.

Yes I agree, I'm going to pass on this update. I can't justify paying $500 more for the same exact features as MC. I wouldn't have a problem with paying a higher price if we had some Symphony only features thrown in.

When I bought my Symphony DX last year the msrp was $35,000 and included a CPU.

Job ter Burg:

If you would need to deliver the same master using M&M, you would not easily achieve this. If you would open your 23.98p sequence in a 50i or 25p project, M&M would autochange the playback speed of the clips in the timeline, so that realtime remains realtime. Which will not give you a generally accepted broadcast master.

Thanks for clarifying.

Job ter Burg:

Universal Mastering means that you can take any 23/24/25p SD or HD project and output as 23/24/25/29 p or i SD or HD during Digital Cut, including necessary speed changes.

Mix and match allows you to use different framerates within the same project, and it will adjust motion adapters on clips that don't match the sequence frame rate.

With UM, if you need to deliver a PAL 25p broadcast master from a 23.98p project, you do a Digital Cut at 25fps, speeding it up ±4%.

If you would need to deliver the same master using M&M, you would not easily achieve this. If you would open your 23.98p sequence in a 50i or 25p project, M&M would autochange the playback speed of the clips in the timeline, so that realtime remains realtime. Which will not give you a generally accepted broadcast master.

Sorry, I do not understand this.

Are You telling us that if we using MaM we will not get any accepted broadcast master? What is the point with MaM when? Just a marketing gimmick?

I think what he is referring to is that each individual clip would have 2:3 pulldown added, but not the whole show. This means that the cadence would change at every shot which would not be acceptable.

You would also have to rerender everything that had effects. And I'm not sure what would happen to any shot that already had a motion effect applied. Plus you have to recreate all of your titles. And you can't apply M&M to matte keys, etc.

Symphony Universal applies 2:3 pulldown to the output as it goes to tape. This maintains a consistent 2:3 throughout your show and applies to everything in the show without requiring any additional rendering.

PS: If Universal is a regular requirement in your workflow, it is worth the extra $500.

Abeyta:

...

When I bought my Symphony DX last year the msrp was $35,000 and included a CPU.

I believe a turnkey MC 3.0 Nitris DX system was $20,000 at that time.

TCurren:

And you can't apply M&M to matte keys, etc.

One slight correction. Mix and Match doesn't work with Imported Alpha Channels but it does work on Matte Key effects. The old trick of stepping in and coping and pasting the Matte to a different track, deleting the effect and using a Matte Key is a work around for mixing down the effect.