I am planning to edit Red 24fps material on MC in a 1080p 24fps project, to master on blu-ray.

I will also need to make a Beta SP Pal master. How do I go about this conversion with Avid?

Will I get transcoding artifacts on the PAL version, or will it just be 4% faster and higher pitch sound?

Or would it be better to work with 25fps material and convert to 24fps for Blue Ray?

Any advice gratefully received.

nigelad:

I will also need to make a Beta SP Pal master. How do I go about this conversion with Avid?

If you are finishing in MC, and you have the final sequence, flip your project settings from 1080/24p to PAL 24p, then do a Digital Cut. In Digital Cut you can choose to either playout at 24fps-with-pulldown or at 25fps (with speed-up). The latter is common for broadcast/delivery. The pitch will change. Some professional DAW plugins and several standalone boxes let you compensate for that, but it's not entirely without compromising sound quality.

nigelad:

Or would it be better to work with 25fps material and convert to 24fps for Blue Ray?

If you have no other primary delivery format, you could shoot and post 25p, then deliver a 25p BluRay. If you think about international sales and/or theatrical release, stick with 24.

Thanks a lot Job!

Just the advice I was looking for

still working through the post-process.....

Is it possible to make a 25P bluray?

These are film school projects that are only likley to be viewed in the UK on bluray players, but I don't want to find tht the discs don't work on a lot of players.

Thanks for any more info.

Not too sure how to do that, but I think that BD does not specify 25p, so you might be better off using a 50i derivate of your 25p footage and creating a 1080/50i BD.

Hi

I have a similar task. We'll be receiving 24p and 24psF Quicktimes for BluRay Discs. No problem there, but we'll also need to produce PAL SD DVDs. The DVD authoring programme requires 50i or 25p Quicktime files for import.

We've tried exporting a Quicktime movie at 25fps. That doubles the 24th frame every second, keeping the duration constant but creating unpleasant motion effects.

We'd like to have a 25fps film that runs quicker than the 24fps and downpitch the audio, but without having to digital cut to tape.

Any idea how we could do that?

Rodney

How about using an application like CinemaTools to convert a copy of these files to 25p? It will change the sample rate, so you'll need to do a sample rate conversion afterwards. If you need to maintain pitch, you will most definitely need to treat the original mix and create a 25fps version. This is best handled in an NLE, and you will need to experiment with various techniques in order to make it sound right. From what I hear, usually, doing a 2-step conversion is best, this is: time-compress first, then pitch correct, or vice versa, rather than doing it in one run.

This is a bit of a work around, but on occasion the way we end up doing this is to layoff the 24fps time line at 25 (selected via the Digital Cut tool as Job mentioned), thus creating a 25Psf digibeta... and then re-digitizing this into a 25p project.  You'll just have to to get your sound re-pitched down by 4.1 per cent.

From here you can go and make your 25 fps Quicktimes without worrying about duplicated frames.

jakeheat:

creating a 25Psf digibeta

For picture you can do a QT export - open a 25p SD project and import after entering "ignoreqtrate true" in the console. This will create a 1:1 import resulting a 25fps playback. Qt ref out for encoding as needed. Audio as Job says need to be treated for the 4.1% speed up.

Michael

The Cinema Tools route seems to be the simplest and least time-consuming. Took about 10 seconds to "re-rate" a 24fps QT for import into a 25p project. 

Our audio expert is back on board next week so we'll work out the speed-up problems with him. It shouldn't be too difficult, 24@25 has been around in broadcast for 50 years, so there's sure to be a simple solution (famous last words?)

Thanks for all your input!

Rodney

RodneyinMunich:

there's sure to be a simple solution

Yes: it's called compromise. The point is: where do you want to do that: in time, money, or quality. If you have an audio expert nearby, he'll most likely have run into similar situations, and will have a preferred way of going about it.

Assuming it is a pic and audio locked sequence then under MC 4's mix and match could you not just open the 24P sequence in a new 25P project and do the suggested modify. (Instant)

Drop the modified sequence into a new timeline and render. The audio takes care of itself

ProCoder 3 does a great job (for me anyway) of taking a 1080 23.976P project and encoding a SD 25 MPEG 2 for PAL DVD.

AndrewAction:

Drop the modified sequence into a new timeline and render. The audio takes care of itself

What you then would get is 100% audio (no pitch correction, no modification, no alteration in any way), and picture with a Blended Interpolated 96% speed motion effect effect. This does not look very nice, and does not preserve frame integrity (which is when using the "common" way to do it). Change to FLuid Motion, and you're in for a huge render, plus FluidMotion will not detect cuts, so you will run into a gazillion FLuidMotion artifacts at cuts.

Job ter Burg:

Blended Interpolated 96% speed motion effect effect. This does not look very nice, and does not preserve frame integrity

FWIW I did 23.976 to 25 that way for an urgent rushed job Blu Ray and no one has yet picked it watching it on a 103 inch screen.  Horses for courses.