So, going back a few steps among the posts, I qoute myself ( again )

Very good that you finally has came to the same conclusion that myself and John among others has trying to tell you all for some time, deactivate your Agere chip and do some tests with the TI chip and a couple of ( good ) tapes and tell what happens.

When you have done that, maybe you will come back to this thread, and tell, in a polite way, what did happen ...

You are really don't know what you are talking about.

OK, George and Tomas, if I see one more "sparring" post from either of you, I'm locking this thread.

And if Larry doesn't, I will.

That was to be expected....

But within this quarrel one simple question was asked that is interesting. What is the problem with the Agere chipset when using MC and connecting dv devices. If there is a problem with it? Is it a timing issue?

Agere is qualified by avid for XW8400 workstations for connecting mojo and adrenaline.

http://cdn.pinnaclesys.com/SupportFiles/attach/HP_XW8400_Configuration_Guide_for_Software_Only_Nitris_DX_and_Mojo_DX.pdf

http://cdn.pinnaclesys.com/SupportFiles/attach/HPxw8400dualquad-coreConfigurationforAdrenalineandMojo.pdf

If anybody has any technical info, please post.

EDIT:(why are these documents on the pinnaclesys.com site?)

P.S. 

Sverkalo, Mjolnarn.... Without saying who's right or wrong. If you feel the need to do this, then for the sake of the quality on this forum and the rules that apply to it....  You can also use Private Mail.... 

What is the problem with the Agere chipset when using MC and connecting dv devices. If there is a problem with it? Is it a timing issue?

Well, I actually tried to get that tested if you read my posts, i would also be interested in this

Sverkalo, Mjolnarn.... Without saying who's right or wrong. If you feel the need to do this, then for the sake of the quality on this forum and the rules that apply to it....  You can also use Private Mail.... 

Yes, of course, sorry if I used a little to offensive words but i really wanted this to be tested without getting into all this long discussions about bad tapes that, according to the OP, not was his probs.

I have had several problems with firewire cards on my qualified systems. 

On a HP XW8000, XW8200 with mojo and on unity through Ethernet avid tells us to use a ADS Pyro in the specific slot for mojo or adrenaline. I have several revisions of the ADS Pyro card. One of them will not work in a XW8200. It is as if the card is not present at all.... not recognized by bios and windows, reseated many times nothing.... changed bios settings... nothing. Another ADS Pyro card works like a charm in the XW8200. So you think that card must be broken... but the card that refuses to work in a XW8200 works fine in a XW8000 with mojo connected 

On the XW8400 a Pyro card can only be used for firewire storage. Connecting the mojo or DNA results in dropped frames, video under-runs, etc... only the on-board firewire connector or an Agere card can be used n a different slot.

On some DIY systems I made, other chipsets then TI did cause problems with avid.  

In non avid computers I also have cheap VIA chipset firewire cards. Also here cards with identical chipsets (no revisions can be found) give different results on different mainboards.

This makes me believe that:

- PCI bus controllers affect how firewire cards are recognized in windows.

- PCI bus structure and timing affect performance (not a believe but known fact) 

- Firewire is not a standard as in that all parameters are specified. Not all chips are functionally identical, not even from the same (avid certified) manufacturer.

In case of ADS I have not been able to find a revision history to understand what the differences are between cards. Without understanding all the technical parameters that play a role here it is impossible to determine if avid is at fault. It is true though that other applications are a lot less sensitive to these variations in firewire chipsets then avid.

jveekeres:

On some DIY systems I made, other chipsets then TI did cause problems with avid.  

 It is true though that other applications are a lot less sensitive to these variations in firewire chipsets then avid.

 

If this is ok for you, I shorted your post to this, I guess this about summarize the situation but it is always interesting to see if anything new has happened when new versions are released.

Connecting more hardware and going into advanced system settings as you have, add even more factors to have to think about, sometimes i feel very lucky to be on a software only ( well my Canopus bob of course works excellent ) system 

jveekeres:

Agere is qualified by avid for XW8400 workstations for connecting mojo and adrenaline.

I know people don't like to hear this standard response, but...

Avid has certified workstations and the components of those are also certified and tested.
As soon as you step outside of the certified hardware then you should not be surprised if something works or doesn't work correctly.
As soon as you are outside the certified list... one person with firewire card XYZ will say it works, while another user who has a different uncertified set-up will say card XYZ doesn't work.
Both of those users are correct in their observations.... even though they contradictory.

Until Avid states otherwise I guess that the hardware lists of certified workstations are the ones that you should be relying on.
Expect varying and sometimes contradictory results from the many homebuilt computers running MC (myself included!)

Regards,
Douglas

drbgaijin:

jveekeres:

Agere is qualified by avid for XW8400 workstations for connecting mojo and adrenaline.

I know people don't like to hear this standard response, but...

Avid has certified workstations and the components of those are also certified and tested.
As soon as you step outside of the certified hardware then you should not be surprised if something works or Until Avid states otherwise I guess that the hardware lists of certified workstations are the ones that you should be relying on.

Yes, Douglas, a quite correct official statement but Jeroen dont seem to agree.

" I have had several problems with firewire cards on my qualified systems. "

This is a jungle I think, lucky we aren´t evaluating computers and computer systems..

mjolnarn:

Yes, Douglas, a quite correct official statement but Jeroen dont seem to agree.

" I have had several problems with firewire cards on my qualified systems. "

Jeroen also added,
"This makes me believe that:
- PCI bus controllers affect how firewire cards are recognized in windows.
- PCI bus structure and timing affect performance (not a believe but known fact) "

In other words he does recognise the fact that there may be some more complex reason for varying results.
He is not trying to pin the blame on a specific card or chipset.

Also, as Jeroen is using a certified system, he is in a position to be able to get support from Avid.

But, I will leave this thread now, as I can honestly say I am out of my depth when it comes to technical problems of this sort.

I am sure that you and others will be able to get to the bottom of things.

Regards,
Douglas

PS. If I get any information from Avid on this question I will pop back and pass it on.

It is not that I disagree with Douglas. In fact I follow Avid's guidelines and when systems are connected to unity I follow them 100% or as close as possible. I want things to be as reliable as possible taking in account the cost needed to do that.

Fact is though that the numbers of variables in hardware, firmware, in combination with OS version, driver versions (and the possible presence of viruses) indeed create a "jungle" in which avid can only test a limited set of those variables. Blaming Avid for that serves little purpose, but avid does have to try to keep up with developments and keep system requirements available as complete and correct as possible.

For example: I find the 3.5.4.3 solution, the fact that this bug with the Nvidia Quadro 3700 card was allowed to fall through, the different readme files and the way avid now gives a solution to users that suffer from that bug, is not according to it own quality standards. But for the firewire cards I don't think that is the case.

So as a conclusion I would say: Yes avid could make MC more flexible in its use of hardware and/or specify better in detail what technical specifications are needed for its correct functionality for DIY system builders. As most users use avid for professional purposes this does not need to be a high priority issue.

For the OP and the OT, throw in a firewire card with a Texas Instruments chipset. Cost probably $15 to $30. If you have a choice use an ADS Pyro. It is not a 100% sure that this will solve the issue. But the chances are good it does. 

It is high priority. There are no more professional purposes as they used to.

People do films with AVCHD or HDV small prosumer cameras.

And as long as we are on tape, MC must handle all kind of cameras if it is going to go on.

Agere and TI works with a Sony 30P DVCam.

Agere or TI doesn't always captures with Z1 or HV30.

Or to say it better when there are small glitches, timecode breaks or small holes it stops.

While there are commands in setting to go on when it detects timecod breaks, it doesn't.

Agere and TI works with all the above and continues to capture at the same issues when used

Premiere, Vegas, Studio or Liquid.

Then why not use something from those when there are such problems.

This is what I am doing.

If this is ok with Avid or some of you it's fine by me.

If you don't see the problem there will be a bigger one in the near future.

Unless tape vanishes too fast.

sverkalo:

Agere and TI works with a Sony 30P DVCam.

Agere or TI doesn't always captures with Z1 or HV30.

Or to say it better when there are small glitches, timecode breaks or small holes it stops.

Again, could you please open up a new thread about this, this is not a thread about bad tapes, since the beginning of the thread, now 6 pages, it has been about recognizing fw devices.

please, understand this, and be most welcome to open up a new thread about bad tapes

sverkalo:

Agere and TI works with a Sony 30P DVCam.

Agere or TI doesn't always captures with Z1 or HV30.

Do we know that the failure of captures with the Z1 and HV30 is due to the firewire card chipset? In other words. Do we know it works with a via chipset for example.? Or could it this also be due to other problems?

Then... I understand your arguments why this should be a "high" priority. You are indeed right that the rise in quality of equipment, especially on the cheap side of the spectrum, during the economic crisis, creates the need for avid to expand its certified equipment list. Firewire plays an important role in connecting this equipment to mc.

But if avid suggests TI in case 1 and Agere in case 2, why not follow that advice? And if Agere doesn't work, while it does with other programs, why do we have to blame avid for that while at the same time we understand it is much more complex then it seems.