Latest post Mon, Jan 13 2020 5:09 PM by Sergey. 10 replies.
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  • Thu, Jun 4 2009 10:12 PM

    • tleisher
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    Importing OMF

    I had a friend work on some audio for an edit I did. He exported an OMF file from Logic and gave it to me. I tried to import the OMF file back into my project but I got this error:

    Import does not match the project rate. Project Rate: 24 File Rate: 48000.

    I assume this means that the project rate is 24p (which it is) and the audio rate is 48000 (which it is). This shouldn't effect the import of the audio file though, as one is FPS and the other is audio.

    Anyone know how to fix this or how to properly import an OMF file into a project?

  • Fri, Jun 5 2009 7:02 AM In reply to

    Re: Importing OMF

    When you import OMF, you are not just importing the sound, but there's some sequence information as well. That's why the framerate matters. The whole OMF-thing has always been more of a one-way phenomenon, meaning that it was meant to send stuff from Avid to sound post, not the other way around. Unfortunately.

    Is this a stereo mix? And if so, why not have your friend export as (B)WAV or AIF?

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  • Fri, Dec 27 2019 4:10 PM In reply to

    • Sergey
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    • Moscow, Russia
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    Re: Importing OMF

    I got the same problem with Pro Tools HD 12 and MC 2018.12.9.
    Unfortunately I don't see any simple solution.

    In my case I had to make few steps. First I adjusted sequence to fps of my project. This step seems to work correct. Then I imported audio files manually, renamed them according to the names in sequence and relinked sequence to manually imported audio files by name with relink to selected items option. I can't use AAF because i got right names only from OMF. All AAF options change wav files names to regions. This is worst compatibitly I could imagine with 2 products of the same company. I spent 2 days trying to move audio from Pro Tools to MC without new clip names.

  • Fri, Dec 27 2019 7:29 PM In reply to

    Re: Importing OMF

    In Protools you use Bounce To disk to output Wav or AIFF files.

    Thats the simplest way. 

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  • Sat, Jan 4 2020 8:32 PM In reply to

    • Sergey
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    • Joined on Fri, Sep 11 2015
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    Re: Importing OMF

    Hi. What does mean bounce? I met this term somewhere in documentation and understood it as just a way to get wav files within all project length. If so this wil not help me because this operation will destroy sync with video in my case.

    Let me explain why I got the issue with compatibility with some details.
    Imagine you make a feature with animated characters. Let it be Hotel Transylvania 2. You made a rough cut and you need a voices from actors to use them in shots. To do this you made a video of your rough cut and
    sent it to voiceover studio. This studio use pro tools and they record an audio for you with actors. Lets say they have to record phrase "Hi, guys. This is so exciting." https://youtu.be/LgjA_HJSx3c?t=167
    You make some takes to get the best while recording. Every take will have the same TC in pro tools session. Lets say every take will start from 01:00:02:47 position. First take will make a wav file in Audio Files folder of pro tools session. Let it be Rec_01.wav 2nd take will be Rec_02.wav, etc. But after few takes you can want to record just one word in the middle of the phrase. You have to cut selected take and you got regions with names like Rec_01-01, Rec_01-02 etc. If you try to send an aaf from Pro Tools you break a connection with original Rec_01.wav, Rec_02.wav files. You got a newly generated wav files. It is OK if the audio is all you need.
    But imagine you record a video of actor while you record audio. After selecting the best take for particular phrase you want to use video of an actor to use mimics for animators. In this case you don't have effective instruments to sync audio and video of an actor.
    You have a video with freerun TC and a lot of pieces with phrases to sync with it. All takes of the same phrase will have the same TC. This is TC of place in you cut not the freerun TC. You can easily place this phrase to the feature film position but you don't have any connection with video of actor. You have to manually sync every phrase because phrases are the same within the takes and waveform sync makes a lot of mistakes.
    If I bounce this session I will get just a bunch of long separate tracks with length of session, right? If so this will not help even makes this task more difficult.

  • Sat, Jan 4 2020 11:08 PM In reply to

    Re: Importing OMF

    "Bouncing" the audio out is the standard way of exporting the audio of the finished Protools timeline.

    Its timecoded so its easy to bring back into the edit and sync to the video.

    The standard is that the cut video is sent to the Protools for audio finishing. The finished Audio then goes back to lay under the Video.

    If you are sent a rough cut video edit then you send the audio bounce back and sync that back to the rough cut video. That video can then be cut up to give subclips with audio.

     

    But I'm not familiar with your workflow so can't help.

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  • Sat, Jan 4 2020 11:15 PM In reply to

    • Sergey
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    Re: Importing OMF

    OK, I got you, thank you. This is the point:

    Pat Horridge:
    The standard is that the cut video is sent to the Protools for audio finishing.

    We have some unusual situation in this case. We have to use audio from Pro Tools as not final product. We use it for further work.

    Please note we have 2 video. One is the rough cut of feature film. 2nd is the live video from voiceover session. Bounce will help with 1st video and will not with 2nd. I need 2nd.

  • Sun, Jan 5 2020 9:43 PM In reply to

    Re: Importing OMF

    A test I did yesterday for getting an audio only AAF from PT's 2019.12 to MC 2019.12 with media including file names for a question in the Pro Tools forum.  I have not used OMF for years but from my reading of your post this method using AAF seemed to match all of your requirements.

    I used a computer with both MC and PT's  on it and without shared storage. For this test I opened a new 8 track stereo session with stereo music on each track. I cut sections out of all music clips so I had several short clips on each track to approximate separate VO recordings. 

    For the AAF export I selected MC Compatible. File type to MXF media, stereo and choose embedded media with 1000ms (default setting) handles.
    I sent the AAF export to a newly created 100 folder in my F:\Avid MediaFiles\MXF\folder. 

    note: if your MC is on a different machine then send AAF to a new folder with a number only. Then copy that folder into your MC computers media drive\Avid MediaFiles\ MXF folder. This allows MC to index that folder that just has this projects media in it when you open MC.

    Open a MC project and make a new bin.
    Expose your desktop, navigate to your media drive and open the number named folder you created in the Avid MediaFiles\MXF folder\100 folder.
    Drag the AAF file into your new bin.
    The bin will populate with your audio media and the AAF file.
    This media has the file names and clip timecode from the Pro Tools session.
    Find and double click on the AAF file in the bin. This opens a new timeline in your record window with tracks and timecodes matching the Pro Tools session's timecode. The media is on line.

    PS
    For your information if the Pro Tools session has not been not set up to Grid mode and the grid set to 1 frame then each MC clip may have 2 parts a almost full length clip and a (several) sample length clip to compensate for MC's frame rate based audio. 

  • Mon, Jan 6 2020 12:24 PM In reply to

    Re: Importing OMF

    I'd ask for a WAV or AIFF export rather than an OMF.

    Sounds like the OMF project rate isn't 24fps (could be 23.98fps or anything else)

    If you knew what fps the OMF was you coudl create a project at that fps and import it into that and then export a wav.

    Audio can have an fps as its used to tie the framerate timecode.

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

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  • Mon, Jan 6 2020 5:35 PM In reply to

    • Sergey
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    • Joined on Fri, Sep 11 2015
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    Re: Importing OMF

    AndrewAction:
    A test I did yesterday for getting an audio only AAF from PT's 2019.12 to MC 2019.12


    Thank you for your test, you've made a lot of work and it is impressive. Unfortunately I've already did about ten tests like this and all of them didn't help me. Also I spent two days with sound engineer trying to find a solution.
    I don't have any issues with delivery of audio itself from Pro Tools to Media Composer. I have issue with arranging this audio in the order it was recorded and to sync it with video record of actors (NOT WITH THE VIDEO USED FOR VOICEOVER!).
    All this started from first record session. I got an aaf from sound engineer and video from 3 cameras. When I imported this aaf I quickly found out what I have strange pieces of audeo with names like 'FADES", or "SAMPLE ACCURATE EDIT'. I have a lot of them with the same names. How to sync them with video? How to arrange in the order they were recorded? I've tried to check TC and found out it was the same for many clips. See screenshot of bin and timeline from aaf in Media Composer (please, download this image or open it in separate browser window to see timeline part):

    These audio takes were perfectly synced with the feature film by sound editor. But I had to sync them with these videos (this is the video records of actors from 3 cameras were made at the same time as audio was recorded):

    As I mentioned earlier here are some examples of this kind of video:
    https://youtu.be/LgjA_HJSx3c?t=167
    As you can see they have free TC and no connection with TC of feature film. Some of videos have length of few hours (cameras were just pushed to start record and stopped only to change power supply). It is easy to sync these cameras between themselves because of long time record but difficult with short pieces of audio, because we don't have each take name and clap of clapboard after that like we can have usually with shooting. We have only similar phrases.

    Then I tried to use creation date and time of audio files from aaf to arrange them in time. They were useless because they were not original.

    After that I asked for additional files from sound engineer. He sent me full Pro Tools session
    I installed a Pro Tools trial and make few tests. I found out what digits  added to regions are not connected with recording order.
    I've tried to cut Rec_90-06 region and got new 90-07 and 90-10 regions right in the middle of full Rec_90 clip.
    So if I will arrange clips by name I will not get order of record.

    Then I investigated audio files from Pro Tools session "Audio files" folder and imported another aaf version to Media composer (with link to export option). Those audio wav files had real date and time of creation of them (just hours and minutes of course). I used these times to add as AUX timecodes to help me to sync with video. Waveform sync works bad because of repeated phrases. Even in this case I synced them almost manually. I synced these full audio records to sync with most long videos from GoPro.

    Also I have a sequence with 3 cameras synced with each other. I loaded one of sequences to left monitor and added audio from pro tools with the help of gang option.

    Finally I got 2 sequences, the one from aaf I used for feature and another to sync with audio. As an additional step I had to manually compare this 2 sequences to get synced actors video to sequence with edited feature.

    After we found out what in case of any aaf export from pro tools session we lose connection with original pro tools files (RAW audio files if you like) we made a few tests with sound engineer.
    1. We made simple aaf with just 4 records: Test_01, Test_02, Test_03 and Test_04.
    After importing aaf to avid we got the same names and full-length audio. It is possible to use aaf link export from pro tools and original files from pro tools to use them in Media composer. But when I tried this with real pro tools session only 10% or so were connected in MC. Everythine else were offline. We tried to find out what happens in case of editing in pro tools and made more tests.
    2. I asked to make some changes in ProTools and sound engineer cut some of clips or shorted some of them and we got a "regions" with new names. After transferring this session to avid via aaf names of original files became incorrect.
    Avid refers to non-exist files Test_02-02, Test_03-02 and Test_04-01 . I can get this audio with import but this audio was new and doesn't contain real time of creation.
    3. We tried to transfer pro tools session results via OMF
    This time we got something close to what we need. Names of files were correct and I saw sublips which refer to region names. But sequence duration was incorrect and when I tried to open it avid showed error "The sequence frame rate does not match the project frame rate. I told about this to our sound engineer and he sad he have right settings 24p for session and 24p for export. I also have 24p project. After I agreed I got new sequence with proper duration but I couldn't relink or batch import audio clips because of wrong 48000.00 fps.

    After we couldn't get what we needed I asked for an entire pro tools session. Then I installed pro tools and did more tests by myself with no success except OMF export.
    So my issue is not with delivery of audio. It is how to sync audio not one piece by one but all of them with using ANY ways to automate this procces. It is really hard to sync every phrase manually and I still don't have any solution.
    As some succes I was lucky to find a way to relink sequence from OMF.
    This is a workflow:
    1. I import sequnce from OMF. I got audio clips names similar to RAW files from Pro Tools
    2. I rename all subclips from Rec_01-05 to Rec_01, from Rec_01-04 to Rec_01 and so on (I delete "regions" part of names).
    3. I batch rename all RAW files from pro tools (this step is needed because MC by design consider 01, 02, 03 and files with the same Text part of name as an sequnce and assign different tracks to files. So it is impossible to relink clips after that). I simply add one letter to the end of file name.
    4. I import RAW pro tools audio files.
    5. I rename clip names of imported audio files (I delete letter from the end of clip name added in previous step)
    6. I select these audio clips in one bin and relink a sequnce from other bin with option "relink to selected iteim in all open bins" with NAME and start TC options
    After that I got a sequnce I can use with feature and I got audio clips I can aggange as the were recorded to sync with the video of actors.
    But it still hard to sync this audio because I have to sync audio clips usually no longer than ten seconds with few hours of video. I use 2 things to do this - waveform sync help to find a place where particular phrases were recorded. And when I find the exact place with 1st phrase I use waveforms to sync the others.
    So transferring original pro tools files to Media Composer is just a part of workflow. The purpose is to sync audio from pro tools with video recorded the same time as voiceover record was made. And I still don't see effective solution. I asked about ability to record external TC to Pro Tools and I got answer it is not available.

  • Mon, Jan 13 2020 5:09 PM In reply to

    • Sergey
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    • Joined on Fri, Sep 11 2015
    • Moscow, Russia
    • Posts 13
    • Points 135

    Re: Importing OMF

    Hello. I investigated more about my issue and I get an advice of using of sound TC. Here it is:

    In this case I guess it would be easiest to feed the video camera with TC-as-audio, so that you can Read Audio TC in Media Composer to use that to find corresponding TC's.

    I've made a few tests with sound TC using.
    First of all we thaught we wil try this:
    - add an audio TC as second channel directly to the movie for voiceover as separate channel and play it each time while record. And to record TC from this audio channel to one of the camera. I tried to simulate results of such record. I took 3 real audio files from pro tools already synced to video and added TC track to them as second channel. When I exported movie file with 2 tracks (left for original audio and right for TC track). And then I imported this file back to MC to try to read TC and use it for syncing.
    I found out MC can't use it because of breaks. I got few errors. You can see them on screenshots.

    But this situation is better because I can see moments of record and I can arrange clips mannualy as blocks. I refused of this because it is a monkey business. I didn't check is it possible to get TC going to camera right at the moments of records.

    While I was discussing with sound engineers about ability to send an audio sygnal from pro tools to the camera in the record room I thaught: why don't we do opposite? What if we use some sound TC generator to make constant TC generating and send it to Pro Tools as additional sound track (like from additional microphone). When It will be possible to read and get TC from every sound clip and use it for syncing. And once more I returned to inability of Pro Tools to generate or use TC in freerun mode. That is real issue. I will try to ask for a feature request.

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