Very good

malefunktion:

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Please excuse the separate post as I can only post replies, but not edit any existing ones (due to forum problems.)

All DV material, be it PAL or NTSC is lower-field first as per the DV standard. SD NTSC is lower field, whereas SD PAL is upper field. HD(V) as you've noted is all upper-field first.

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You actually touch upon an issue that has driving me kind of batty. What exactly does "DV" mean in Avid's nomenclature? Is it strictly the DV format created by JVC, Sony and Panasonic? Does it include DVC Pro?

And when "NTSC" is mentioned, what exactly is this referring to? I know what NTSC stands for and about the frame rate differences between NTSC and PAL regions--hence the need to use a pulldown to display 24P material in a 60i broadcast here in the states. But in terms of Avid, what specific format is "NTSC?" I'm assuming it means analog 60i video, but I'm not sure.

These questions may seem basic. But believe me, I've gone through Help, read the manual and done Google searches. And what I've found is that these terms are used somewhat loosely. For example, the Avid manual mentions "DV device." I'm assuming that includes HDV cameras--but those are not (strictly speaking) "DV," as they employ MPEG-2 compression, not DV.

And even from your post, you say all DV material (PAL or NTSC) is lower field first. But you also say SD PAL is upper field first. Well isn't DV PAL also SD PAL? This gets very confusing to me.

I'm sure once one gets more familiar with the terms, the confusion clears, but right now I'm going a little batty. Any help would be MUCH APPRECIATED :).

Hello there, did you ever do that Fast Import demo, wouldn't mind taking a look at this myself!

ATTIC Films:

Hello there, did you ever do that Fast Import demo, wouldn't mind taking a look at this myself!

This is a very simple workflow, well described by malefunction I think, shouldn´t need so many more explanations, just to checkmark the correct boxes described in the thread.

BobbyMurcerFan:

you say all DV material (PAL or NTSC) is lower field first. But you also say SD PAL is upper field first. Well isn't DV PAL also SD PAL?

I agree it is all confusing as it evolves from transmission encoding format terminology 'PAL/NTSC' to digital file formats terminology.

In the quote above, 'SD PAL' is taken to mean 625 line 50Hz formats that arent DV based.  Think Digi Beta/Beta SP as these are the usual upper field first.

Had a lot of bother working with DV when you mix it with other non LFF formats - esp when it later comes to encoding and authoring.  I do have my own sucessful workflow now, arrived at via much trial and error and wasted disks! However a solution could be to ingest DV via SDI as this potentially avoids the LFF dominance you get via Firewire.  In fact, I have never had issues at companies/facilities that dont touch firewire but had a nightmare recently at one when they ticked the wrong field dominance box on some clips when performing an import from DV protocol media cards.

It should really be 'flagged' within the file itself and all imports could then match the correct field domaince for the file & format.  Shouldnt be too hard to achieve and that would be far more progressive

D

Fast import with Liquid's fused NTSC AVIs works sometimes with MC 3.5.  It did not work at all with the earlier versions.  You can say "It did not work for me" but for me that's all that counts.  Remember, I started asking this specific question months before MC 3.5 came out.  In fact, I started asking just before MC 3.0 came out.  As I said so many times before, I had already tried all the steps too many times to count and the process did not work.  With MC 3.5, it works sometimes and sometimes does not with the same kind of fused file from Liquid.  At this point, I'll just get whatever files will fast import (or import at all) and then recapture the ones that won't fast import or import at all.

On a related subject (re: Liquid and MC working with each others' files), try to get MXF or P2 files from Liquid to work in MC some time.  Maybe that will work in 3.5 but it didn't when I checked it out in an earlier version.  Have fun. 

DIESELE:

It should really be 'flagged' within the file itself and all imports could then match the correct field domaince for the file & format.  Shouldnt be too hard to achieve and that would be far more progressive

Hear, hear!

mjolnarn:

smyers63:

malefunktion:

mjolnarn:

Anyhow, for those wanting to test, this is the links , the entire 45 secs, from the famous Avid Liquid race car sample delivered together with the app once upon a time.

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I have test imported both of the clips into Avid, both are fast importing when it comes to the video, the audio is transcoded.

Thanks for the direct uploads Mjolnarn. It's good to have sample files actually from liquid for others to try. For the record (not that I thought they wouldn't) both clips Fast Imported here on my system too.

I have removed my Xpress Pro 5.8 and installed the 14-day Media Composer 3.5 to test it all out so that any steps I can offer are current and accurate.

For Smyers63 here are the steps used to import both these clips into MC 3.5:

1.) Create an appropriate project type (25i PAL/30i NTSC)
2.) Open a bin, right-click > Import.
3.) Locate a DV AVI file and highlight it.
4.) In the Import dialogue set the 'VIDEO RESOLUTION' to match what the DV AVI is: DV25 420 for PAL, and DV25 411 for NTSC (OMF or MXF is fine).
5.) Click the Options button.
6.) Ensure that 'IMAGE SIZE ADJUSTMENT' is set to 'IMAGE SIZED FOR CURRENT FORMAT'.
7.) Ensure that the 'FILE PIXEL TO VIDEO MAPPING' button is set to '601 SD OR 709 HD'.
8.) Ensure that the 'FIELD ORDERING IN FILE' option is set to 'ORDERED FOR CURRENT FORMAT' OR 'EVEN (LOWER-FIELD FIRST)'.
9.) Click Okay and then Okay again to start importing the file.

Yet again, your most important assumptions are wildly incorrect.  You think I have not already done that many times.  Should I waste my time saying again that this does not work?

I've waited more than long enough for a resolution to this problem.  A moderator should have stepped up to solve the problem long ago and has not in this thread where another user did get some moderator response and no moderator stepped up in another thread about the same kind of problem that I started months earlier.  As I already said, I am not going to continue to argue about this.  I want a solution, not the same rehash again and again of what does not work.

The files from Tomas are from Liquid which I would say was installed as a PAL installation.  There's a difference (many perhaps) between that and an NTSC Liquid installation.  That is why I mentioned NTSC specifically earlier.  You and Tomas do not understand how Liquid behaves differently between the two types of Liquid installations.

So, to reiterate, I expected moderator response to this issue from the beginning and still have none.  I will settle for nothing less than an answer from one or more of the moderators.  We've been colleagues for far too long for me to settle for any less.  It would have been different if any user had supplied a solution but none have and there's no reason at this point (10 months into the problem) to have any faith in a user coming up with a solution.

Don't make any more snide comments about whether I'm angry.  I have every right to be whether I really am or not.  Whether I am or not isn't yours to worry about or make comments about that do nothing to help and much to make the situation worse.  This is an example of the worst customer support imaginable.  A user of this product has been waiting 10 months for a solution to a problem and there's still nothing.  Don't anyone pretend that's acceptable.

 

 

Well, well , so much for wasting time and library space and trying to help ...

Is that guy feeling well ?

Just noticed that Avid has choosed Scott to be a moderator on this forum, let us all hope that his behaviour would be a bit more polite after having beeing selected to be a moderator

Tomas, in all fairness to Scott I do not think that looking back like this is going to help keep our Avid forums at the high level of co-operation and tolerance they now have.

It is not so much what people did in the past.... it is what they will do in the future.

I have every confidence in Scott being an excellent moderator here.
I do not think Avid choose moderators lightly.

I hope you understand,

Regards,

Douglas

drbgaijin:

Tomas, in all fairness to Scott I do not think that looking back like this is going to help keep our Avid forums at the high level of co-operation and tolerance they now have.

It is not so much what people did in the past.... it is what they will do in the future.

I have every confidence in Scott being an excellent moderator here.
I do not think Avid choose moderators lightly.

I hope you understand,

Regards,

Douglas

 

Of course, and it is in no way my intention to bring this thread OT, this might be handled into another thread and maybe forum, being a mod might make users thinking once or twice before writing stuff, let´s look forward and have friendly thoughts.