malefunktion:

smyers63:

I've never had a fast import of DV material taken from Liquid.  If you're getting that to work, congratulations.

You cannot escape the conversions going on when importing into MC.  You can only escape that by capturing with MC as far as I know.

Really that's the point of the thread really. To show that folk from Liquid can "Fast Import" DV-compliant AVI files directly into MC without any conversion, just a rewrapping.

Have you tried the steps mentioned earlier with some of your own Liquid DV footage? It's working for the original poster, and two moderators have tested DV AVI files too.

Firstly, I said I have not seen it work.  I didn't say it won't work. I'm happy that it has worked for others.  I'm not happy that it hasn't worked for me.

Secondly, I wish these answers had come in May and June when I asked the same question - how to quickly get material captured in Liquid into MC.  No one said anything about using fast import or I would have been on it immediately and would not have started looking for I/O for MC.  I'm down a few hundred dollars based on not having that information.  At least Neil and people from this point onward will have that information to help them.

Thirdly, MC is going to convert the files in some way no matter what during import whether fast import or not or am I wrong?  That's what I said earlier.  The only way to completely avoid any extra time with conversions is to capture directly with MC.  Is that wrong?

Yes, I will try it when I have a chance which won't be for at least several days.  Now that I have I/O for MC (based upon not having any of the same sort of answers a few months ago), I don't need to import footage from Liquid.  I capture directly with MC now.  I can't afford not to use that hardware I bought. 

Whoa, steady smyers63, I think there may have been some misinterpretation along the way. I wasn't speaking about whether you claimed the method worked or not, my questions to you were an honest and polite attempt to understand whether you'd tried the steps others in here have done - and whether they had worked for you. There was nothing untoward inherrent in the post at all.

With regards to MC converting files, as has already been mentioned in the thread, no conversion/transcoding is done at all when importing a DV-AVI file. The "Fast Import" process of these files is nothing more than a straight copying process from an AVI file, into an MXF/OMF file. This is why the process is quicker.

Peace.

I can also say that fast import of Liquid's AVI fused files in MC works for me.

I just have to change the "File Pixel to video mapping" to 601 SD...

I don't have to change the Field Ordering in field. I can choose "Properly ordered for current format".

I've thought about this thread for all these months (as well as the thread I started in about May 2008 where I also got not resolution to this same problem.  I've tried various export methods from Liquid and various import methods in MC and NOTHING has worked so far to make a fast import happen.  I even went as far as to export using the Avid DV codec into a QT file and THAT won't even fast import into MC.  I'm no moron.  I know how to experiment with settings and I know nothing has worked yet.  I also know that it's time to get this settled.

Let's cut out all the back and forth where some say it does work and I say it does not.  That hasn't solved the problem and it never will.

I wish I had the time to transcode (either with Liquid or MC) all the footage still locked up in Liquid's capture folders and get it off the machine - or that I had the time to recapture it all with MC - but I do not.  I also don't have the time to argue over and over that this fast import that's supposed to be so easy to accomplish isn't so easy to accomplish after all.

How about someone telling me exactly how they've set up the options in MC 3.x to get a fused DV AVI (NTSC) file from Liquid to fast import into MC?  Then, I can try that once and for all to see if that works.  If it doesn't, then I'll make available such a fused file from Liquid so you can see whether it works or not yourselves.  OK?

It's time for a real answer instead of "he said, he said."  If a year goes by (just another 3 months away) with this still unresolved, I'll really be angry - as if I'm not already and haven't been for a long time.  Wouldn't anyone be under similar circumstances? 

smyers63:

Let's cut out all the back and forth where some say it does work and I say it does not.  That hasn't solved the problem and it never will.

For those who it has worked for (which are many including a couple of more experienced editors who didn't know/think it could be done either)... I'd reckon they'd argue it has 'solved' the problem - though not necessarily your problem.

As for cutting out the "back and forth" stuff. This IS a user support forum. Its very nature is the exchange of "back and forth" information often in an attempt to narrow down a solution to a problem. If you cut that process out just because you aren't getting a positive result, how would that even remotely help people that it does work for?

smyers63:

How about someone telling me exactly how they've set up the options in MC 3.x to get a fused DV AVI (NTSC) file from Liquid to fast import into MC?

I'm pretty sure if you refer to the first page, there are steps and settings for importing a DV-compliant file. Later it was expanded upon by JWRL who helped clarify media creation settings in relation to colour sampling methods (4:1:1 DVCPRO25 etc...)

smyers63:

If it doesn't, then I'll make available such a fused file from Liquid so you can see whether it works or not yourselves.  OK?

I'd advise that you actually do just that. Upload something for us to check out because there are many positive results using the steps in this thread and it would help in the exchange of "back and forth" information to see what may or may not be a problem with the files you're working with.

As it currently stands your anger and frustration is more than evident, but when objectively presented with people having success and at present one person not, we have to track down what is likely 'different' about your attempts.

It could be that your source files differ in some way (see above advice about uploading a short DV-AVI sample). It could be your import settings are correct, but the media type isn't (DV25 411, DV25 420 etc...).

It could be that your source files differ in some way (see above advice about uploading a short DV-AVI sample). It could be your import settings are correct, but the media type isn't (DV25 411, DV25 420 etc...).

I will waste some space in my 500 gb library later today to post two 20 secs avi files, one ntsc and one pal, created by Liquid and fast importing into Avid, for users beeing able to test for themselves.

mjolnarn:

I will waste some space in my 500 gb library later today to post two 20 secs avi files, one ntsc and one pal, created by Liquid and fast importing into Avid, for users beeing able to test for themselves.

Thanks for that, it'll certainly help.

However I still reckon Smyers63 will have to provide a sample of their file(s) in order to really help them out.

Yes, I would also like to take a look at those files.

Anyhow, for those wanting to test, this is the links , the entire 45 secs, from the famous Avid Liquid race car sample delivered together with the app once upon a time.

The Pal clip is exported directly out of the sample project using all the default settings and the Ntsc clip is converted with Liquid from Pal to Ntsc and exported out of the Ntsc timeline in Liquid also using all the default settings.

I have test imported both of the clips into Avid, both are fast importing when it comes to the video, the audio is transcoded.

PAL Race Car                   NTSC Race Car

mjolnarn:

Anyhow, for those wanting to test, this is the links , the entire 45 secs, from the famous Avid Liquid race car sample delivered together with the app once upon a time.

...

I have test imported both of the clips into Avid, both are fast importing when it comes to the video, the audio is transcoded.

Thanks for the direct uploads Mjolnarn. It's good to have sample files actually from liquid for others to try. For the record (not that I thought they wouldn't) both clips Fast Imported here on my system too.

I have removed my Xpress Pro 5.8 and installed the 14-day Media Composer 3.5 to test it all out so that any steps I can offer are current and accurate.

For Smyers63 here are the steps used to import both these clips into MC 3.5:

1.) Create an appropriate project type (25i PAL/30i NTSC)
2.) Open a bin, right-click > Import.
3.) Locate a DV AVI file and highlight it.
4.) In the Import dialogue set the 'VIDEO RESOLUTION' to match what the DV AVI is: DV25 420 for PAL, and DV25 411 for NTSC (OMF or MXF is fine).
5.) Click the Options button.
6.) Ensure that 'IMAGE SIZE ADJUSTMENT' is set to 'IMAGE SIZED FOR CURRENT FORMAT'.
7.) Ensure that the 'FILE PIXEL TO VIDEO MAPPING' button is set to '601 SD OR 709 HD'.
8.) Ensure that the 'FIELD ORDERING IN FILE' option is set to 'ORDERED FOR CURRENT FORMAT' OR 'EVEN (LOWER-FIELD FIRST)'.
9.) Click Okay and then Okay again to start importing the file.

malefunktion:

mjolnarn:

Anyhow, for those wanting to test, this is the links , the entire 45 secs, from the famous Avid Liquid race car sample delivered together with the app once upon a time.

...

I have test imported both of the clips into Avid, both are fast importing when it comes to the video, the audio is transcoded.

Thanks for the direct uploads Mjolnarn. It's good to have sample files actually from liquid for others to try. For the record (not that I thought they wouldn't) both clips Fast Imported here on my system too.

I have removed my Xpress Pro 5.8 and installed the 14-day Media Composer 3.5 to test it all out so that any steps I can offer are current and accurate.

For Smyers63 here are the steps used to import both these clips into MC 3.5:

1.) Create an appropriate project type (25i PAL/30i NTSC)
2.) Open a bin, right-click > Import.
3.) Locate a DV AVI file and highlight it.
4.) In the Import dialogue set the 'VIDEO RESOLUTION' to match what the DV AVI is: DV25 420 for PAL, and DV25 411 for NTSC (OMF or MXF is fine).
5.) Click the Options button.
6.) Ensure that 'IMAGE SIZE ADJUSTMENT' is set to 'IMAGE SIZED FOR CURRENT FORMAT'.
7.) Ensure that the 'FILE PIXEL TO VIDEO MAPPING' button is set to '601 SD OR 709 HD'.
8.) Ensure that the 'FIELD ORDERING IN FILE' option is set to 'ORDERED FOR CURRENT FORMAT' OR 'EVEN (LOWER-FIELD FIRST)'.
9.) Click Okay and then Okay again to start importing the file.

Yet again, your most important assumptions are wildly incorrect.  You think I have not already done that many times.  Should I waste my time saying again that this does not work? 

smyers63:

malefunktion:

mjolnarn:

Anyhow, for those wanting to test, this is the links , the entire 45 secs, from the famous Avid Liquid race car sample delivered together with the app once upon a time.

...

I have test imported both of the clips into Avid, both are fast importing when it comes to the video, the audio is transcoded.

Thanks for the direct uploads Mjolnarn. It's good to have sample files actually from liquid for others to try. For the record (not that I thought they wouldn't) both clips Fast Imported here on my system too.

I have removed my Xpress Pro 5.8 and installed the 14-day Media Composer 3.5 to test it all out so that any steps I can offer are current and accurate.

For Smyers63 here are the steps used to import both these clips into MC 3.5:

1.) Create an appropriate project type (25i PAL/30i NTSC)
2.) Open a bin, right-click > Import.
3.) Locate a DV AVI file and highlight it.
4.) In the Import dialogue set the 'VIDEO RESOLUTION' to match what the DV AVI is: DV25 420 for PAL, and DV25 411 for NTSC (OMF or MXF is fine).
5.) Click the Options button.
6.) Ensure that 'IMAGE SIZE ADJUSTMENT' is set to 'IMAGE SIZED FOR CURRENT FORMAT'.
7.) Ensure that the 'FILE PIXEL TO VIDEO MAPPING' button is set to '601 SD OR 709 HD'.
8.) Ensure that the 'FIELD ORDERING IN FILE' option is set to 'ORDERED FOR CURRENT FORMAT' OR 'EVEN (LOWER-FIELD FIRST)'.
9.) Click Okay and then Okay again to start importing the file.

Yet again, your most important assumptions are wildly incorrect.  You think I have not already done that many times.  Should I waste my time saying again that this does not work?

I've waited more than long enough for a resolution to this problem.  A moderator should have stepped up to solve the problem long ago and has not in this thread where another user did get some moderator response and no moderator stepped up in another thread about the same kind of problem that I started months earlier.  As I already said, I am not going to continue to argue about this.  I want a solution, not the same rehash again and again of what does not work.

The files from Tomas are from Liquid which I would say was installed as a PAL installation.  There's a difference (many perhaps) between that and an NTSC Liquid installation.  That is why I mentioned NTSC specifically earlier.  You and Tomas do not understand how Liquid behaves differently between the two types of Liquid installations.

So, to reiterate, I expected moderator response to this issue from the beginning and still have none.  I will settle for nothing less than an answer from one or more of the moderators.  We've been colleagues for far too long for me to settle for any less.  It would have been different if any user had supplied a solution but none have and there's no reason at this point (10 months into the problem) to have any faith in a user coming up with a solution.

Don't make any more snide comments about whether I'm angry.  I have every right to be whether I really am or not.  Whether I am or not isn't yours to worry about or make comments about that do nothing to help and much to make the situation worse.  This is an example of the worst customer support imaginable.  A user of this product has been waiting 10 months for a solution to a problem and there's still nothing.  Don't anyone pretend that's acceptable.

 

Well, well , so much for wasting time and library space and trying to help ...

Is that guy feeling well ?

Scott,
I am not stepping in as a moderator with a solution..... sorry.

But I will add support to your PAL/NTSC thoughts.

I have no longer Liquid installed but I do have a few AVI files that I created from Liquid.
They are NTSC.
I never tried the "quick import" into MC before, as I never really needed to try and import any of my old Liquid AVIs.

I followed Malefunktion's instructions letter for letter and I can say that neither of the 3 AVI files I tried would Quick Import.
The files were around 1Gb each and each took around 12 minutes or so to import.

It looks like this supports you in that NTSC AVI files from Liquid will not QUICK-import into an MC NTSC environment.
I say "looks like" because there is 1 unknown factor involved in my AVI files - I am not sure of the exact settings I used from Liquid. (If that has any bearing on the question)

As to the absence of moderator answers - I cannot speak for them - but I am almost certain that the regular moderators here are unlikely to have any NTSC version of Liquid installed or even to have any NTSC-AVI files that they had created in Liquid previously. I can fully understand that anyone who has no experience with the problem is unlikely to try and address it.
There are, however, 2 experienced NTSC Liquid users (also Pinnacle Liquid moderators, like yourself) who have MC installed. It might be appropriate if they could try and help out in this question.

With this short step into the thread, I will now leave it as it is outside of my area of experience.

Regards,
Douglas

Douglas,

Don't be sorry at all, mt friend.  You've already helped more than you know.  You confirmed that MC is not doing a fast import but is "converting" as I said earlier (something Malefunktion took exception to but which is the same thing he called "re-wrapping."  Who cares what to call it?  It still takes (without a RAID as I think you may be using) about an hour or even more for me to import 1-hr. AVIs into MC because of the "conversion" to MXF.  Malefunktion could call it "ski-jumping" or "horse-riding" for all I care but it still wouldn't alter the time it takes to import.

I have hours and hours and hours of footage locked up in Liquid that I don't have time to transcode or import the way things are now, nor do I have time to recapture it all.  I need the footage into MC quickly (and at this point quickly is no longer possible - 10 months is way past "quick") and the only way is fast import which is not working.

The specific thing I want resolved (meaning find the solution or find that it just doesn't work and get it fixed in a new release or find some other method which can "fix" the files so they will fast import) is taking a fused file from an AVI timeline in NTSC-installed Liquid and having that fast import to MC.  As far as I could tell in all the tests so many seem to think I haven't done, it doesn't matter if it's a fused file or an exported AVI, Douglas, or whether the audio is embedded or separate audio, or if it's a DIF AVI.  As you know, fusing is the preferred option because of its speed.  It's a "fast export" if you will.  For those not in the know, when selecting an AVI timeline and not changing any of that preset's parameters, the fuse is supposed to output another DV-AVI just like the DV-AVI(s) which were captured and placed on the timeline.

As I made clear earlier after others had said here or ini other threads that fast import also "works" with QT files made with Avid codecs, that doesn't work for me either.  There's a big problem and it is not that I haven't tried enough things.  That should have been clear to all when I said it so many weeks ago.

Unfortunately, as I think you also know, the other moderators like myself who got MC to help Liquid users migrate have not been using MC anywhere near the degree I have and probably would not be of any help.  Dave apparently hasn't gotten his sound working after all this time and Lew seems not to want to use MC at all.  I won't waste time asking either of them although your suggestion would have been a good one if I were not the only one of us making good use of MC.

Thanks for your post, Douglas.  That's the first helpful one in a long time.

Douglas,

I forgot to address your remarks about the MC moderators and with the forum servers acting so poorly, it's easier to post a new reply than to try to logout, get back to the thread, login and edit (which sometimes doesn't work anyway).  At least I can logout, get back to a thread and click reply to call up login and proceed from there without problems.

So, regarding the need to have one or more MC moderators involved: it doesn't matter that they don't have Liquid.  I can make available one or more files with which to test.  At this point, I'm not going to put the files out here for just anyone and everyone because there's just too much chance that they'll report that it works for them like they've done already.  The tone of the "help" so far gives me no confidence that further instances of the same will help, either.  After all this, I'm not going to trust the opinions or observations of just anyone.

It's the moderators' responsibility to handle situations like this.  You know that I know it and how I know.  The Avid moderators also know that I know and how I know.  We worked together around this bunch of Avid forums for some time.  We are still colleagues in the Avid family.  That's just another reason why the lack of response is so unacceptable.  There's no need to go into more detail.  I'll put it like this: If this were a typical customer who had a question unanswered (or not answered in an appropriate way) or a problem unresolved for 10 months, we both know it would be a much different story.

But why? Customer service is customer service no matter who needs it.  The fact that I have been able to get away with not completing all those projects that have been stuck in Liquid since about May 2008 should not enter into any of this.  I don't want to use Liquid anymore.  When I was provided MC there was a purpose - to learn how to use it and help other Liquid users who made the switch.  This was a question I knew other Liquid users would be asking once the upgrade offer was on the table.  I was preparing for the questions I knew would come up so I stopped using Liquid as quickly as I was able to get used to MC, which was in a matter of weeks.  Since that time, 99% or more of my work has been done with MC but there's still all that work stuck in Liquid (which I do not want to use - I should be able to use fast import as I've wanted for so long and finish those projects in MC).  Oddly, my questions as a fellow moderator were generally ignored but other users got answers to the same sorts of questions within hours.  That's why when my own thread went ignored for months, I replied in this one since at least Neil had gotten some input from the mods.  The fact that they're gone again when my problem is still unresolved is unacceptable.

I'm sure there'll be some more replies from the same users as earlier but I want to respectfully ask them not to reply again.  I've gained nothing from those posts and lost so much time already that there's no use for them to continue.  I'm sure they were honest attempts to help in the beginning but not taking my word for what I had already done and simply telling me to do the same thing again and again that I said more than once I'd already done was of no help at all.

smyers63:

I'm sure there'll be some more replies from the same users as earlier but I want to respectfully ask them not to reply again.  I've gained nothing from those posts and lost so much time already that there's no use for them to continue.         ....   no help at all.

As other users might find this of interest, I wan´t you to do the following:

1: Download the Car Race Clip, the ntsc version of course

2: unpack it from rar to avi, import it to avid as per the instructions.

Now tell me, a very fast Yes or No will do, is it fast importing

Looking forward to a short and clear answer ...