I wonder if the problems are down to 'young' editors.

In the good old days it took years before you became an editor you had to work your way up the system, by the time you became an editor then senior editor you would have earned respect and a high salary but now editors are fresh out of school and willing to work for low/no pay so you have little chance of high pay and high status, it has changed the perception of the role and senior position that used to go with the job.

THIS MESSAGE IS NOT FOR YOU NICKB, but for everyone.

I'm just taking your nice message as a patron.

 

 

Some of you guys paint a picture of low pay

 

.-Everyone gets paid to what they worth.

If you wanna get paid better, you have to get better and offer better.

 

 

a very competitive market place

 

.- Instead of the delusional saving of $ 5.000 (or so) in a one time expense (NLE), why don't get more skillful, more competitive in order to get BETTER gigs and BETTER clients.

It's amazing how someone can even suggest that saving some dollars in a one time, short term expense or lowering his rates and reduce the overhead to a minimum can save and make thrive ANY business.

What's next?

Work in a cave to save in rent? 

 

Yeah, the market is plagued with cheap arses, slave drivers, the "my son can do that at home" kind of clients. 

So what?

Who wants them?

 

We have to be always improving, training and working hard to get better and separate ourselves as far as possible from the "consumer" type of job.

or else.

 

I don't want that kind of clients!!

In our company, we understood long time ago that the best way to get better business is to offer better quality and more complex work, you know, the kind of work "my cousin can't do".

 

 

 

no job security

 

.- Again, is up to you.

 

 

and no respect

 

.- People gives you the respect that you earn.

 

 

 

 

 

My $.02:

I am good friends with an Avid editor here in Los Angeles.  A lot of tv productions has moved over to Final Cut Pro. Thi is just a fact whether or not Avid realizes it (they must) or wants to admit it (they don't seem to). While many of these shows are lower budget/cable shows, they USED TO be cut on Avid and no longer are.

I'd say most independent films are now being cut on FCP or Premier. Apple Color has really hurt Avid in the one man band market. Avid used to tout superior color correction as an advantage over Final Cut. Now the retort is something along the lines of editors aren't colorist anyway so you don't really need better CC tools. I went over to Keycode Media and they actually told me I should buy FCP just to use Color for finishing. And they are an AVID DEALER who knew I already own MC3 and use a PC.

The net effect is my Avid editor friend had to learn FCP inorder to get a job. And she's hardly the only one, right here in Los Angeles where Avid has its firmest stronghold.

raspago:

.-Everyone gets paid to what they worth.

 

....Wrong ! No they don't. This is part of the problem.

raspago:

If you wanna get paid better, you have to get better and offer better.

...I agree with you in principal, but in practice it doesn't necessarily follow in our market.

raspago:

.- Instead of the delusional saving of $ 5.000 (or so) in a one time expense (NLE), why don't get more skillful, more competitive in order to get BETTER gigs and BETTER clients.

...Yes. You are absolutely right. We are re-thinking and re-tooling our services. I will also obtain further training in Adobe After Effects and FCP. I am also looking into the Avid certification process. This old dog needs to learn some new tricks.

raspago:

Yeah, the market is plagued with cheap arses, slave drivers, the "my son can do that at home" kind of clients. 

So what?

Who wants them?

... We don't but when the cheap arses turn out to be producers, who are getting more ignorant and undiscerning everyday, then what ?

raspago:

We have to be always improving, training and working hard to get better and separate ourselves as far as possible from the "consumer" type of job.

or else.

...This is a very good point. I live and work in a consumer driven market, where quality is not prefered over price. This is where allot of what you said gets tossed out the window, because quality work used to always outshine and set those who strive to produce it apart from the crowd. In our present market quality is not what is setting the standard, rather it is price and only price.

....We're living in a big shake down. Advertisers have done their job extremely well on the young generation which is coming up in our industry. Price is King !

 

 

 

 

 

BobbyMurcerFan:

The net effect is my Avid editor friend had to learn FCP inorder to get a job. And she's hardly the only one right here in Los Angeles where Avid is supposed to have its firmest stronghold.

 ...Even the giant, voracious consumer dragon is shaking down Hollywood ! I think I have to learn FCP in Montreal to get more jobs as well.

 

The net effect is my Avid editor friend had to learn FCP inorder to get a job

 

.- Man, in which planet am I living?!?!?

I've never needed FCP to get a job.

Although I'm fairly proficient in FCP, I've never had a job in where the primary NLE was FCP.

My FCP skills are taken as a plus and, sometimes, I use them, but that's it.

 

 

Price is King !

 

.- Yeah, in the cheap sector of the market, which I don't want.

But still there is a good portion of the market, in which skills, speed, RESPONSABILITY and quality surpases greed, cheapness and low cost NLEs.

 

"We don't but when the cheap arses turn out to be producers, who are getting more ignorant and undiscerning everyday, then what ?"

 

.- Cheap Jobs, cheap clients cheap producers, they all belong to the cheap market we have to avoid.

They are part of the very same problem.

 

 

BTW, there is no profession in the video/film world more tainted and damaged that the producer's.

95 % of the producers I know are stupid, talentless coffee makers who doesn't know squat about nothing.

 

A serious, professional producer wouldn't commit to the kind of idiocy and cheapness described in this thread

raspago:

The net effect is my Avid editor friend had to learn FCP inorder to get a job

 

.- Man, in which planet am I living?!?!?

I've never needed FCP to get a job.

Although I'm fairly proficient in FCP, I've never had a job in where the primary NLE was FCP.

My FCP skills are taken as a plus and, sometimes, I use them, but that's it.

...

If the show's editorial department has switched to FCP, then you really have no choice. 

And this IS happening right here in LA. Not for network tv but cable. We're not talking late-night access stuff, but rather name shows.

She needs Final Cut on her resume to get jobs. That's just a fact of what she and many of her contemporaries are dealing with.

I know if you're great at what you do... well I'm sure there's still work for a GREAT horse drawn carriage maker, but not a GM, Ford or Toyota.

raspago:

Price is King !

 

.- Yeah, in the cheap sector of the market, which I don't want.

But still there is a good portion of the market, in which skills, speed, RESPONSABILITY and quality surpases greed, cheapness and low cost NLEs.

 ....The portion of the market to which you refer does infact exist, but it is getting smaller and smaller every day. Count yourself fortunate to work in the sector to which speed, skill, and quality matter. These ideals have always mattered to me. The higher ideals should be important, but increasingly they are being dispensed with in order to serve the lowest common denominator which is the natural dictate of any consumer society. Allow me to express my idea in a different way - Money talks !

 

raspago:

.- Cheap Jobs, cheap clients cheap producers, they all belong to the cheap market we have to avoid.

They are part of the very same problem.

 ...Yes. I agree strongly. They must be overcome.

raspago:

BTW, there is no profession in the video/film world more tainted and damaged that the producer's.

95 % of the producers I know are stupid, talentless coffee makers who doesn't know squat about nothing.

....Ha ! Ha ! Ha !....So you have been reviewing our client list Well, I've never ! This is an insult to coffee makers everywhere !

 

raspago:

A serious, professional producer wouldn't commit to the kind of idiocy and cheapness described in this thread

...I think all the serious producers have left the country !

 

Laptopeditor

Well if things are as bad as you say then it is not an editing problem but a business problem.

If your clients have no money then that is no good for your business no matter how good you are.

If your clients do have money but just low ball you and want to exploit you then ask them to leave your premises, turn down the work, you do not want to do business with them, send them to your competitor. 

Choose who you work with as much or if not more the project.

Employ or become a producer, turn the tables around. If you own an Avid then go and buy Camera kit then you become a production company move higher up the food chain.

There is no long term future in doing low paid work if you are highly skilled and think you deserve a decent standard of living.

NICKB:

Well if things are as bad as you say then it is not an editing problem but a business problem.

 ...I think it's a combination of both, thus the decision I have taken to get more training in After Effects & FCP. Also, I think we have to re-invent our post house concept.

NICKB:

If your clients do have money but just low ball you and want to exploit you then ask them to leave your premises, turn down the work, you do not want to do business with them, send them to your competitor. 

....No. I wouldn't say it's a question of being low balled so much as it is an issue with volume of customers, or shall I say, an erosion of our existing client base due to affordable high quality editing alternatives.

NICKB:

Choose who you work with as much or if not more the project.

 ....I always did do that. Sometimes, I'm happy to take les money if I see it is a prestige project.

NICKB:

Employ or become a producer, turn the tables around.

...Actually, it's interesting you mentioned this. Last year we purchased a Canon XL H1 production camera, and we decided we would diversify into production. I don't believe one can exist by doing editing alone in our market. I am well aware one can in several of the US markets and in Europe.

NICKB:

There is no long term future in doing low paid work if you are highly skilled and think you deserve a decent standard of living.

....Agreed. I don't think Montreal is generally a big enough production center to sustain the volume levels for editing alone. However, I need to reverse this progressive erosion of our existing post client base.

 

NICKB:

Laptopeditor

Well if things are as bad as you say then it is not an editing problem but a business problem.

If your clients have no money then that is no good for your business no matter how good you are.

If your clients do have money but just low ball you and want to exploit you then ask them to leave your premises, turn down the work, you do not want to do business with them, send them to your competitor. 

Choose who you work with as much or if not more the project.

Employ or become a producer, turn the tables around. If you own an Avid then go and buy Camera kit then you become a production company move higher up the food chain.

There is no long term future in doing low paid work if you are highly skilled and think you deserve a decent standard of living.

What you are failing to recognizie is that this is also very much an Avid problem. The company sat on its hands to a very large extent while its base declined. It continues to do a lousy job in the educational market, even with an EXTREMELY generous educational discount.

Its educational approach is skitzo. A student can buy the software for $300, but how many students have Quadro FX video cards in standalone computers not regularly connected to the internet w/ hardly any other software installed? The discount is a moot for the vast majority of students.

Granted FCP jobs pay lower than what Avid editors are used to getting. And of course there are still Avid jobs as well. But people who spent ten years of their life on Avid feel like the company's [fill in the blank] has hurt their ability to land/keep a job.

I realize an answer is to learn other applications, and many people are doing that. But this is an Avid forum, and I believe most people post here also hoping Avid will take notice.

 Avid can turn things back around. They do still have big advantages.The tide is no longer in their favour, however. In the meantime, I'm very reluctantly considering a purchase of a damn Mac and FCP...  For me that's big, as I've been an Avid devotee through my editing life.

I didn't stop to think how graphics card price/availability could also be affecting Avid's penetration of the educational market. Maybe it's time to get some kind of deal for Quadro FX graphics cards bundled with Avid MC. Or computer packages that don't cost $15K.

Granted FCP jobs pay lower than what Avid editors are used to getting

 

I have never understood why an editor would accept less money turning up for work and finding out they have to use FCP rather than Avid i use both and charge the same rate.

As for students not being able to afford a computer to run the $300 Avid, tough, it is not Avids fault it is the students fault for not working out a way to afford a computer.