Latest post Tue, Sep 23 2008 10:49 PM by Larry Rubin. 13 replies.
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  • Mon, Sep 22 2008 7:33 PM

    • aedmonson
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    Importing large graphic file into 16:9 project

    I have a large graphic file 2000 x 1000 I want to import into an Avid (Composer 3.0) 16:9 project.  It seems no matter which options I choose for import, the graphic comes in too tall or too squished.  Does anyone have any insight?

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  • Mon, Sep 22 2008 8:31 PM In reply to

    • pgh1138
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    Re: Importing large graphic file into 16:9 project

     Resize the graphic in a graphic editor (photoshop).

    Tom

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  • Mon, Sep 22 2008 8:44 PM In reply to

    • aedmonson
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    Re: Importing large graphic file into 16:9 project

    Resize to what?  720 x 540?  The other issue is, the graphic contians a perfect square and perfect circle, and those come in either squished or stretched depending on the option chosen, and I've tried all 4 options.  Will resizing address that issue? 

    Thanks

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  • Mon, Sep 22 2008 8:53 PM In reply to

    Re: Importing large graphic file into 16:9 project

    When you say a 16:9 project do you mean a 16:9 HD project or an anamorphic 16:9 SD project?

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  • Mon, Sep 22 2008 8:58 PM In reply to

    • aedmonson
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    Re: Importing large graphic file into 16:9 project

     anamorphic 16:9 SD project

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  • Mon, Sep 22 2008 9:04 PM In reply to

    Re: Importing large graphic file into 16:9 project

    Ah, figured.

    All 16:9 material in an Avid SD project is actually just 4:3 anamorphic. Because of this you'll have to pre-size the image you're working with in order to pre-squish it for playback.

    Divide the 2000 width by (4 divided by 3 or 1.333333333 recursive) and you'll get almost exactly: 1500.

    Resize a copy of the image to 1500x1000 and import using "Maintain and resize, Square".

    I reckon it'll work for ya. Wink

     

    Note: This is how it works.

    PAL 4:3 square pixel frame is 768x576
    PAL 16:9 square pixel frame is 1024x576

    Since we'd want to preserve the horizontal number of lines (576) for definition, we divide 1024 by 768 to get the ratio (1.333...) needed to "squish" it to a 4:3 frame for viewing as a 16:9 aspect ratio.

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  • Mon, Sep 22 2008 9:45 PM In reply to

    • BLKDOG
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    Re: Importing large graphic file into 16:9 project

    Instead of worrying about the import, just cut the still into your timeline as a proxie, drop an Avid pan and zoom on the segment, point the plug to your large file and now you will not only have the image in the right aspect but be able to use the full resolution of the still in your timeline (otherwise why have such a large file in the first place?).

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  • Mon, Sep 22 2008 10:14 PM In reply to

    • Larry Rubin
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    Re: Importing large graphic file into 16:9 project

     I agree with BLKDOG. Pan and zoom is definitely the way to go here.

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  • Mon, Sep 22 2008 10:18 PM In reply to

    Re: Importing large graphic file into 16:9 project

    Yup, I'm with BLKDOG and Larry... and my-oh-my how did I forget the damn Pan & Zoom effect! I think I'm going senile... "...and he was so young as well. Sad" LOL!

    If you use the Pan & Zoom effect, ensure that you use a decent filtering mode to preserve the image quality. Oh, and remember that the effect will point to the file you choose, so try not to delete or move the file from wherever you have it stored in the directory structure. Wink

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  • Tue, Sep 23 2008 3:39 PM In reply to

    • Phil Lowe
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    Re: Importing large graphic file into 16:9 project

    "ensure that you use a decent filtering mode to preserve the image quality"

    I use Gaussian...best compromise between quality (good) and rendering time (fast).  Avid High and Ultra-High qualities are better quality (depending on original) but rendering takes forever.

    If you're just looking to do a simple import, choose Maintain and Resize Square from the Import Options tab.  That will fit the image to the frame based on the aspect ratio of the image.  Once imported, get it to the right pixel aspect ratio by applying the 4:3 Sidebar effect.  Scale it to size by applying the Resize effect (ALT-Drag) from the Image tab or PiP from either the Blend or 3D Effects tabs.

    Finally, if you have Photoshop, you can resize it there.  Open the image in Photoshop (or any other photo editor) and create a new square pixel image that's 853 x 480.  (That's the square pixel equivalent of non-square anamorphic DV).  Once done, import that in Avid as a 601/709 image under pixel aspect ratio setings.

    Hope this helps.

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  • Tue, Sep 23 2008 5:03 PM In reply to

    • Phil Lowe
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    Re: Importing large graphic file into 16:9 project

    I've been working on a quick tutorial for my co-workers on graphics in Avid.  Here's a short thumbnail of that tutorial...

    There are two aspect ratios involved with every image brought into Avid: Frame Aspect and Pixel Aspect.  They are related but not the same.  Frame Aspect refers to the aspect ratio (or shape) of the frame, eg. 4:3, 16:9, etc (X value, or Width always coming before Y value or Height).  As you can probably guess, ratios are nothing more than fractions with the numerator (first number) and denominator (second number).  So a frame aspect ratio of 4:3 can also be called 1.33:1, (or just 1.33) which is what you get when you divide 4 by 3.  16x9 is also called 1.77:1 (or just 1.77) and is arrived at by dividing 16 by 9.

    Pixel Aspect Ratio refers to the aspect ratio (or shape) of each individual pixel that comprises an image, be it video or stills.  A square pixel aspect ratio is as tall as it is wide, so has a ratio of 1:1.  Computer graphics, scanned documents or photos and digital stills usually have a square PAR, as does 720p HD, among others.

    Standard definition DV and Anamorphic DV both have non-square PARs (pixel aspect ratio), but they are not the same.  SD DV uses a PAR that is .9:1, or 90% of its width to height, while Anamorphic DV use a PAR that is 20% wider than it is tall, or 1.2:1.  This is why both fit into the exact same 720 x 480 frame, but while standard DV will look normal on a 4:3 TV, it will look stretched on a 16x9 TV.  Conversely, a 16x9 image will look "squeezed" on a 4:3 TV.

    Wouldn't it be easier if we could just work with one Pixel Aspect Ratio that would fill every frame properly?  We can. Fortunately, each non-square PAR has a square pixel equivalent.

    SD NTSC Frame: 648 x 486 Square yields a 4:3 or 1.33:1 frame aspect ratio and is the same as a 720 x 486 NTSC D1 frame with a .9 PAR.

    SD DV Frame: 720 x 540 Square yields a 4:3 or 1.33:1 frame aspect ratio and is (roughly) the same as a 720 x 480 frame with a .9 PAR.

    DV Anamorphic Frame: 853 x 480 Square yields a 16 x 9 or 1.77:1 frame aspect ratio and is the same as a 720 x 480 anamorphic frame with a 1.2 PAR.

    Unfortunately, it's been my experience that while Avid interprets square and non-square PARs just fine working in 4:3, it gets a little complicated importing graphics in 16 x 9.  Importing a square graphic with square PAR import settings into a 16 x 9 frame still causes the image to look stretched, even though you used the right import setting.

    This is because 16 x 9 DV in Avid is the same 720 x 480 frame stretched to 16 x 9 by the shape of the wider (anamorphic) pixels.  So virtually anything brought into an anamorphic project that isn't either anamorphic or 853 x 480 (square pixel equivalent) is going to be stretched.  There are two work-arounds within Avid.  The first is to use the Pan & Zoom plug-in, which maintains both the native resolution of the graphic (allowing you to do some cool keyframed moves) and formats to the correct PAR for the project.

    The second is to import the square graphic as a "Maintain and Resize Square" image under import settings for pixel aspect ratio.  You'll notice - again - that even doing this will cause image to look stretched in 16 x 9.  So once you've imported the graphic and placed it on the timeline, apply the 4:3 Sidebar effect from the Reformat tab in the effects pallette, then drag a PiP effect onto that (Alt-drag) and crop and resize (with fixed aspect) to taste.

    Well, hopefully this will help someone.  I know it's a bit confusing at first, but once you start working with graphics enough, this will all become second nature.

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  • Tue, Sep 23 2008 10:29 PM In reply to

    • aedmonson
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    Re: Importing large graphic file into 16:9 project

     Thanks for everyones assistance.  I think I'm getting somewhere.  Now, however, I have another question. What is the differnece between Avid Pan & Zoom and Pan & Scan (under Reformat).  I didn't even realize the latter existed until today.

    Avid Express Pro - PC Avid Media Composer 3.0 - PC [view my complete system specs]

     

  • Tue, Sep 23 2008 10:35 PM In reply to

    • Larry Rubin
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    Re: Importing large graphic file into 16:9 project

     Pan and scan is an effect that allows you to pan across a 16:9 moving image to create a 4:3 image for the purpose of action tracking. Used mostly in transferring wide screen movies to 4:3 and attempting to follow action that would normally go out of frame. You know, the atrocious way the networks used to do it!

    Pan and zoom adds the third dimension and the ability to use a high resolution file instead of creating an Avid media file, so you have truly resolution independent zooming. However, it can't be applied to a moving image.

    {EDIT} And it would really be nice to see rotation added into the Pan and Zoom mix.

    Media Composer Adrenaline PC v 2.7.7 * Newscutter Adrenaline PC v 6.7.7 * XDCAM PDW-1500 & PDW1 * PDZ-1 XDCAM Browser * Sapphire 2.05 plug-in (single... [view my complete system specs]

    Larry Rubin

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    The Pentagon Channel

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  • Tue, Sep 23 2008 10:49 PM In reply to

    • Larry Rubin
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    Re: Importing large graphic file into 16:9 project

    malefunktion:
    ...and remember that the effect will point to the file you choose, so try not to delete or move the file from wherever you have it stored in the directory structure.
     

    Good advice, because not only does that file need to live in your workstation for the duration of the project, if you move the project to another platform, you must move that image as well and re-define a path to it for the second platform. Also keep in mind because no Avid media file is involved, the image must not be deleted even after the effect has been rendered, because only the ballistics of the movement itself are rendered - it still needs the high resolution file.

    Media Composer Adrenaline PC v 2.7.7 * Newscutter Adrenaline PC v 6.7.7 * XDCAM PDW-1500 & PDW1 * PDZ-1 XDCAM Browser * Sapphire 2.05 plug-in (single... [view my complete system specs]

    Larry Rubin

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    The Pentagon Channel

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