We have a film shot on varicam - looks great. In this film, we also have to intercut some footage from 3 other cameras: Canon XHa1 (shot 30i), Panasonic P2 (24p over 30i), and PWM EX1 (30i).

The  P2 intercuts perfectly and looks very similar, obviously. The XhA1 is ok but does manage to match up ok... but the PWM EX1 is just horrible looking footage. It's got this artificial brightness - this is whether we shot outside, inside, in a church in a field... many different setting. We use very very high end shooters and all of use very seasoned so, respectfully, no DP lectures.  All I can say is that the PWM EX1 footage is so "video"-ey (is that a word?) looking that it makes me cringe when I watch. Makes BetaSP look like 16mm. So, here is my question, how good is after-effects (or is there a different program that's better?) at changing the look and feel of 30i footage to a 24p look? Is it ok? Good? Great? We will get whatever AE operator we need - I just dont want to have to re-shoot yet again. Thanks!!

And PS - I will never use that XDCAM camera again. Ugh.

 If you have the Sapphire plug-in effects package, the film effect look is your best bet - extremely versatile - you can achieve many different types of look for your footage.

 Guy, coming from a film background, I feel you on the "Video-y" look. One thing that I have done often is to use a timwarp effect to add the 3-2 pulldown and then I use Sapphire's film effect to match the look of the 24p cameras.

Worked really well for us and I never had to leave the Avid to do it.

 Yikes -- sapphire is $1800 or more! magic bullet is floating around here somewhere -- is that any good?

 Sure, that, BCC, I'm sure you could achieve the same effect with any of them. You'll have to play around with it a bit but I had templates that really gave us a good look. Clients always though we were shooting 16mm.

 thanks! And dont shoot that pmw!

Cameras do not make bad pictures (unless they are malfunctioning), photographers do. It is like me saying that Avid is a really terrible editing program because I don't know how to use it.

The Sony PWM EX1 makes sublime pictures for a small camera in the right hands.

If you shot mostly varicam, why would you shoot the EX1 in 30i and not 24p? I have no idea what you mean by artificial brightness, except that the footage is overexposed. It is very easy to overexpose footage on the small cameras.

GuyWithCat, you may find that grading gets you a better result than fiddling with frame rates.  This sounds like that particular camera was setup "hot".  If you have access to AE, you might like to try this.

1.  Set up a 16-bit or better project in AE and import your offending footage.
2.  Drop a curves effect on it.
3.  Click on the curve about halfway in the bottom left box and leave that set, ie., don't drag it.
4.  Drag the top point down about a third of the way from the top of the top right box.
5.  Click on the line about where it crosses the right most vertical line and drag it down.

How much do you drag it?  That's a subjective decision up to you.  Don't get too heavy handed or you'll get color contouring effects.  What this is doing is preserving your blacks while stretching your whites.  Once you are satisfied with the result, adjust your saturation if necessary and export it back to Avid.

If you had MC you could work in the colorgrade tool in 10-bit resolution to do the same thing.  It's very effective and it has the advantage of allowing you to use a waveform monitor and vectorscope so that you don't produce illegal levels.  I've rescued some very bad footage that way.

Ok now I get to talk. I am not an editor. I will come out here and you can all tell me about editing cuz I dont know a darn thing. But I am a director producer and I have shot for 20 years. I know my cameras. I have shot with a zillion of them - from 16mm to m2 to HDCAM and on and on. There was an error my DP made choosing 30i. Agreed. but I have shot the PWM camera 100 other ways and I hate how it looks no matter what setting it is on and whether it is in controlled light or outdoors. You telling me the issue is the DP is silly. Its a preference thing. And my preference is that that camera does not provide a look I prefer. Its just that simple. The XDCAM GOP system produces an image I just find unpleasant to my eye. thanks

Guywithcat, at no time did I impugn you or your professionalism.  Nor did I cast aspersions on your DOP.  I'll just quote the first line of my posting (the boldface has been added for emphasis):

jwrl:

GuyWithCat, you may find that grading gets you a better result than fiddling with frame rates.

I then went on to outline a technique that I have used in the past to overcome white crush effects on hot video.  This may or may not be your problem, I don't know.  It is, however, a variant of a technique that I have successfully used over the forty-four years I have worked in this industry.  If you feel that it won't meet your needs, fine, don't use it.

Just please don't read into my posting something that was neither there nor intended.

 John, I believe he was responding to Bobcat's post immediately preceeding yours. I don't think that was aimed at you.

Oh. [BLUSH]  Sorry, Guywithcat...

That'll teach me not to scan postings.

yes bobcats posting! not yours all is cool!

The difference between 30i and 24p is extreme in how the material feels. The ISSUE is with the DP if he failed to shoot in 24p. That is not a small matter if everything else is shot in 24p.

I did not question your experience, only the fact that you state that you should not use the EX1 because it cannot make quality pictures. I have been a photographer and director of photography for 30 years and I now shoot on Panasonic and  Sony HD equipment from the Sony 900 to the Panasonic Varicam. I happen to own a Sony PVW F350.

I have met many a creative director and or producer that make statements like you are making, stating that they hate a paticular camera or format and 99.9% of the time it turns out that what it is they don't like is that is was shot in 30i instead of 24p, or the fact that the DP blew out the highlights on purpose and they hate that approach. It always seems to come down to a technical or creative decision not the camera.

You can give a really good DP any camera and he/she can give you beautiful material given the time and materials. Just like a good editor can make just passable material look good. I really hate all this talk on different forums about how this camera just blows away this camera, when in my experience it has so much more to do with the staging and lighting and performances and so little to do with any on particular camera or format.

To say that a format like XDCAM HD is unpleasant when I have seen other photographers create stunning images even with the small EX1, just shows a bias that has nothing to do with the camera or format.

I could show you 3 clips from DVCPro HD, HDCAM, and XDCAM HD and if they were all shot with similar setups there is no way you could tell which camera shot what. If you want to compare a Varicam shot at 24p with an EX1 shot at 30i then, yeah, I'm sure that you did not like the way they cut. If you are worried about different cameras not proving the look you are after then it has more to do with the budget or the DP's you are hiring, not the cameras.

M2???  And your complaining about XDCAM HD?