Brickwad:

My point is, if someone takes a job aren't they required to utilze their employer's equipment - not the other way around?

Brickwad:

 I hear you, but we are at a pivotal time and that is why you have that luxury and why Avid needs to nip this now.  Post houses currently are able to "force" editors to use Avid.  However, I promise you this will not be the case for long.  In less than a decade the tide will change and you will be forced to move to Final Cut.

I've seen big players in the IT industry like Lotus Domino and Novell NetWare just literally crumble under the marketing expertise of Microsoft.  And then the grads start rolling out of school learning NT/Windows Server and Exchange as opposed to Novell NetWare and Lotus Domino.  Then the techs that actually know Domino and NetWare anymore start to evaporate. 

But most importantly, I repeat my biggest point:  professional directors don't care what their editor uses.  So if the new editors want to use Final Cut, and these new editors have favor with a director, Avid is gone without hesitation, which goes back to Larry's point.

Peace as well....I want to use Avid forever.  I'm not knocking features or anything.  But NetWare NDS was way more advanced than Microsoft Active Directory when Microsoft starting eating away at Novell.  History always repeats itself, but students of history can occasionally side step the bombs.  I'm hoping Avid can do this.

 

 

AndrewAction:

the FCP push was not a push but a side effect that happened by accident.

It's not important how it's happened, but it is important that it's happened.  I can remember a time when DEC were a major computer supplier, too - until the IBM PC came along.  DEC's concentration on their professional customers didn't save them.  Then IBM had a nice market with their PCs - until the clone wars.  IBM's professional customers didn't save that market for them either.

The issue is really one of perceived functionality.  Unfortunately, the big customers - networks, major post houses - tend not to use post professionals to do their hardware buying.  They use engineers.  If an engineer sees a product that to his eye is a fraction of the price of a similar product, what will he buy?  Especially if he takes into account the perceived support for that product?

AndrewAction:

Unfortunately one strategy Avid cannot use AND stay in business.

No argument there!  But they can change perceptions by intelligent marketting.  And if they do that it reflects well on all of us.  I don't want to have to justify to another client my use of Avid when his/her perception is that FCP is more modern.

Isn't the bottom line in this (and any other) business that when the market changes, the suppliers to that market have to adapt their products and marketing strategies?

Most avid products are fine products and never needed a lot of marketing in the pro market. But as the consumer and eductional NLE systems (primairally FCP) are on the rise they change the market and therefor avid needs to adapt. I don't see any disagreement on that do I?

Which segment of the market avid makes products for is pretty much clear. The professional! And I think that does not have to change. But as other NLE systems are entering that market, professionalism is changing in the form of workflow and flexibility, not personal attitude of the professional. Therefor marketing towards that professional does not have to change in mayor ways. Being present at the place where professionals are "born", in media academy schools etc... is always good marketing and shows the new kids on te block what some (or most) pro's are using. A free or very cheap stripped MC could also help with that.

At the same time the new "kid" pro's bring new ideas in the form of (freeware) rendering tools and other NLE's like FCP. We the pro's inc. avid need to adapt and be possitive towards good ideas and change. Being pro is, and will always be, to be open to working with different workflows. That also means that the professional will work with what his employer and and or clients ask from him. So a pro that has learned editing on FCP will happelly also learn avid.

At the same time avid needs to use the feedback from it's users and adapt their products so it is more flexible and meets the new workflows and use THAT as an advertisement.

 

jwrl wrote:

If an engineer sees a product that to his eye is a fraction of the price of a similar product, what will he buy?

A professional engineer, as I consider myself, will buy the product that fits his company's workflow best! He learns that by communicating with editors that work on both edits he has build and edits of other companies. Then he looks at the price and discusses with the creative team, producer and director, what the creative demands are and what the budgets are. In that way he gives a technical advice on what to buy. I have never met any professional engineer that liked the cheapest more cause it was the cheapest.

I do not know with what kind of engineeers you have worked with..... but I found this remark. ^%^&^*&**

 

 

jveekeres:

But as the consumer and educational NLE systems (primarily FCP) are on the rise they change the market and therefor avid needs to adapt.

 

And that's exactly the point I'm trying to make as well. Those who choose to swim against a strong current are inevitably swept away.

If I get one more call to cut a feature and it's prefaced with "and we want you to cut it on Final Cut Pro", I'll crazy go nuts. I always respond the same way and that's to say "I cut on what I feel comfortable with and not what YOU want me to cut on, and by the way, did anybody tell the writer that he HAD to write on Final Draft, or was he allowed to write on whatever he felt comfortable with". Sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. But I always know that I'm not going to get stuck cutting a feature for 6 months on something I'd prefer not to be cutting on, from day one.

any production more concerned about the NLE than the story telling is probably not worth working for.

jveekeres:

A professional engineer, as I consider myself, will buy the product that fits his company's workflow best!

Agreed, especially since my original training way back was Electrical Engineering.  A professional engineer should do just that.  Unfortunately over long career I've encountered engineers of all types.

And even professional engineers can be influenced by marketting hype.

"And even professional engineers can be influenced by marketting hype."

Or worse, governed by the bean-counters who hold the checkbook.

Randall L Rike:

Or worse, governed by the bean-counters who hold the checkbook.

 

 

That's not something only the engineers suffer from. Also the producers, directors, production managers,etc...etc...etc.. Money does not rule the world. People do. But they always use money as an argument.... That will also not change any time soon...if ever.

But this better discussed in a philosophy forum.

 

jwrl:

And even professional engineers can be influenced by marketting hype

 

That is true. And I might add something to that. An engineers that chooses to put reliability first is always open but sceptical to change. He always knows he has to look for better and cheaper but will always prefer to choose what he knows works.. In the pro market I think avid has a huge advantage over all the other NLE systems if you look at it that way. That reputation they did not get with marketing but with producing their good products and that, I think, is what avid should continue to do first of all. 

The companies that come with large advertising campains and tell you our product is faster, more flexible and more realiable (and also cleans at 30 degrees celcius) are always treated by me with less attention. Did sony ever advertise BetaSP or Digibeta? I never saw a billboard next to the road with "digibeta the new professional standard" anywhere. still it became a world standard video tape format.

As this thread is still about marketing, avid needs to improve it's products and marketing strategy, specially towards the educational institutes, as markets are changing. The latest changes in prices MC v3 and extra functionality are a very good first step like the title of this thread says.

Avid - You've started a good thing...but more!

I believe that a free (stripped) MC v3 for students would be that ultimate "more"

jveekeres:

 

I believe that a free (stripped) MC v3 for students would be that ultimate "more"

How's $300US for full-blown Media Composer (no 3rd party)? 

If I had MC for $300 in my dorm room a whole 6 years ago... i know i would have been better off than trying to steal time on one of the10 Avid systems on the one night a week i had off from work.

 

 

Hi Funkydragon,

What price is correct for the "full" MC software....? Well, I think your $300 dollar is not bad. I don't know if avid will ever go that low but who knows.

I think that the price is not will not so much be determined by MC's functionality. It think it will be determined by its connectivety. The $300 dollar version (free for students?) wil allow you to connect to your firewire camera/deck and use local storage. As soon as you get into Mojo, DX,  Lanshare, ISIS and Unity prices will go up by the thousand if not ten or hundreds of thousands.

This is also determined by the competition. At this monent avid has some competition when it comes to the NLE systems but none when it comes to "shared" storage. Nobody till now has the same functionality as avid when we look at "unity" or Isis. But I can tell you that developers are working on that as we speak......As OMF was an avid format nobody made a lot of effort to enter that market. But as MXF is a sony standard it's just a matter of time....... So avid also prices for these systems have to drop.. as you are already doing...but more...

jveekeres:

Well, I think your $300 dollar is not bad. I don't know if avid will ever go that low but who knows.

 

The student version of Media Composer, which is fully functional, is $295.00.

 Thx Tcurren,

I had never checked prices of the student version... (long time ago for me)

It wouldn't be bad if avid made it even cheaper if not free for students when looking at market development...... would it?