We have the HV-20 and final cut will deal with it correctly. There are HDV 24 presets, you end up 24 quicktimes. When I work with it in avid, it's always on a 29.97 timeline.

Mark

Mark,

Removing the pulldown will make the footage 24P and importable into an Avid 23.976 timeline.

As for using footage with the pulldown in FCP, I wonder if it's truly handling it properly since the HV-20 does not write pulldown flags. The problems can be subtle/not very significant.

I imagine you can capture HV-20 24PsF into an Avid 60i HDV project. But you're really not supposed to edit w/ a pulldown, unless the NLE can account for it properly. W/o pulldown flags, I don't think Avid will.

Mark Johnson:

We have the HV-20 and final cut will deal with it correctly. There are HDV 24 presets, you end up 24 quicktimes. When I work with it in avid, it's always on a 29.97 timeline.

Mark

Mark,

Apparently Compressor does properly remove the HV-20's pulldown.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2410

I was able to import the HDV 24P into FCP and then in a second step, create a 24P Quicktime in Compressor.  However, it was full of strange artificating---like the top and bottom of the frame is separating.  But only during shots where the camera was moving.  

I'm very interested in this 24P combined workflow with FCP and Compressor.  But at the moment, I have some more pressing issues, which I'm addressing in the next post below.

I need to develop a workflow for HDV 60i.  I've got a little shoot coming up and I want to try using my Canon HV-30 as a second camera for filler and b-roll.  At this time, I do not know what the other format will be---no matter.

Under the Format Tab in the Project Tool, when 1080i/59.94 is selected, I also show a pulldown menu for Raster Type.  When HDV is selected I get one, and only one option for transcoding: DNxHD-TR 145 MXF.  (Thin Raster MXF).  I tried transcoding a few minutes with this codec--it look noticeably awful when compared with the original.

I noticed if set the Raster Type to Standard that I have many more option for transcoding.   So I tried DNxHD 220 MXF .  That looks great!--almost indistinguishable from the native HDV. 

Am I breaking the "rules" by selecting Standard in the Raster Type.  I haven't played around with this footage yet.  Is there any reason why I wouldn't want to use the Standard setting to get to DNxHD 220 MXF with my transcode?

Best Regards,

paul b

Paul,

Glad to see I'm not the only one that likes this high end prosumer camera, and uses it as a deck!

Have you developed a workflow for 60i yet?  Can the HV30 even play out 60i?

I'm frustrated that 24p is not true 24p, that it's cut in a 23.976 project and that when I kick out a QT ref, I have interlacing...which defeats the whole point of progressive.

Another question, why can I digitize a 30p tape in a 30i project, and it works just fine?  I would think there would be issues digitizing 30p in a 30i project?  Is there some interpolation happening?  I'm diging to DV25411MXF.  Would diging to DV 50 MXF make a difference? 

I'm more or less concerned that when I get a tape in from a camera that's shooting in 30p that I won't have an issue down the road...I do a lot of cutting for CD / flash based presentations, so interlacing is always an issue.  In the past, I have blurred the axes in export from Avid to QT.  The BCC de-interlace filter is a hunk of junk, as is FCP's...de-interlacing is the bain of my existence.

I've been cutting for 10 years on Avid and I'm now finally making the "HD" switch, even though I'm only starting with HDV.  Just picked up MC 3.0.5 and I'm in love all over again.  :)

Thanks for any thoughts, and thanks for your original post, it saved me tonight.

Dan

Glad to see I'm not the only one that likes this high end prosumer camera, and uses it as a deck!

Actually, I'm not using it as a deck.  I'm using a higher end canon 3ccd HDV camera as the deck--I can get you the model number if you're interested.

Have you developed a workflow for 60i yet?  Can the HV30 even play out 60i?

Let's get our facts straight.  The camera can ONLY play 60i (30 FPS interlaced).  It can't out Progressive frames through the FW or HDMI ports.

I'm frustrated that 24p is not true 24p, that it's cut in a 23.976 project and that when I kick out a QT ref, I have interlacing...which defeats the whole point of progressive.

I was able to create a 24P file (23.97?) in Compressor.  I was able to import it into a 23.9 Avid Project.  I don't think Avid will import it unless its the real thing.  So I'm not sure what you're saying here.

Another question, why can I digitize a 30p tape in a 30i project, and it works just fine?  I would think there would be issues digitizing 30p in a 30i project?  Is there some interpolation happening?  I'm diging to DV25411MXF.  Would diging to DV 50 MXF make a difference? 

I haven't gotten that far into it yet, but other posts on this thread suggest you can convert to 30P. But you have to convert it in compressor or another PC workflow.

I'm more or less concerned that when I get a tape in from a camera that's shooting in 30p that I won't have an issue down the road...I do a lot of cutting for CD / flash based presentations, so interlacing is always an issue.  In the past, I have blurred the axes in export from Avid to QT.  The BCC de-interlace filter is a hunk of junk, as is FCP's...de-interlacing is the bain of my existence.

I've been cutting for 10 years on Avid and I'm now finally making the "HD" switch, even though I'm only starting with HDV.  Just picked up MC 3.0.5 and I'm in love all over again.  :)

Well, you are welcome and thanks for the kinds words.  Not sure which part of my post you are referring to.

I'll tell you what I did on this past job.  It was a 2 camera shoot: one was a P2, and the other was the HV-30.  Even though the P2 shoots a great progressive frame, the HV-30 is a messy workflow for progressive.  We shot 50 hours of footage between the two camera, so we played it safe. Everything was shot 60i.

We brought the HDV footage in via a higher end Canon HDV camera.  But I didn't test between that camera and the HV-30.  The better camera was around--I used it--no time to mess around.

We took the FW output of the Canon into the Miranda box--converting it to separte audio, time code, and HD SDI.  We captured into an Adrenaline at DnX145. I usually don't use untested workflows on fast turnaround jobs, but this was a relatively low budget project, so  checked with hbrock beforehand.  He confirmed that DnX145 is more than enough data rate to handle Thin Raster HDV.

I was absolutely amazed at the picture quality of the HDV playing back on the Panasonic critical viewing monitor via SDI input.  If you expose properly you will be amazed that this is an $800 camera.

Since you might not have a Miranda and an HD SDI input, you can try this for a tapeless workflow:

1) Input via firewire into a 59.94 1080i project.  2) I would suggest trying to bring it into a NON HDV project--but that might not be possible.   3) Inside the project, go the Format tab and select STANDARD--that will give you more options in your Consolidate/Transcode menu--including DnX145.  (if you stay in the HDV setting, you will only have the one DnX145 TR option--which doesn't look good)    4)  Try transcoding your HDV native using DnX145.

Thanks for the response...I guess I should have been more clear in my initial question about the frame rates, diging from the HV30, and editing in Avid, using the HV30 as means of dig'ing / ingesting...but here's what I've found out tonight.

Recording video either through the HV30 or an XL2, and playing it back into Avid through the HV30 camera ONLY, is making use of Canon's "PF", or "progressive frame" mode, so far as I can tell.  See hv20.com for more info on their PF mode...kinda stoopid, but OK digital workaround I guess...and here's where it's handy, or useful for "dumb luck".

My research was:  Record DV 30p on my XL2, and HDV30 on my HV30.

I created a 30i project in Avid and successfully digitized the 30p DV footage into the project.  I kicked out a QT ref, and there was no interlacing.

I created a 1080i 59.94 project in Avid and successfully digitized the 1080 HDV30 footage into Avid.  I kicked out a QT ref, and again, there was no interlacing.  I thought that the 1080 HDV30 setting in the HV30 would be interlaced, and it probably is, but if it is, wow, the 60fps sure makes the final QT ref look smooth with no interlacing.  But I guess I'm also not completely sure that the HV30 can record 1080p...I highly doubt it for a mid-range prosumer camera.  Anyways, here's the exported image...and yes, I know, I didn't have time to figure out the white balance...although I'm sure it's pretty easy...  Anyways, it's a fuzzy critter in a fuzzy bed, and the critter's moving, and I don't see any interlacing.

Completely unrelated to all of this, I am also having an odd audio issue diging DV 24p in an Avid 24p project...Avid says I need to change the audio pulldown offset, but when I do, I get "Not Supported" in the capture tool, and it reverts back to only dig'ing video or audio, but not both at the same time.  Whatever.  I can dig 24p audio & video together in a 23.976 project and that works...it must be the DF that's screwing up the capture tool, because no matter what setting I use (I've changed literally everything in Audio Project and my Site Settings).  I am convinced I need a new sound card...as IDE probably isn't the best to run with MC 3.0.5.