Canon HV30 Handycam.   I bought one of these--its a lot of fun and the pictures are surprising decent out of the built in HDMI output.  The camera has manual focus, manual iris and manual mic level--we're going to be hearing more about this little camera I think.

How do I get it into MC?  I don't see a Deck Config for this.

Why doesn't it work with Mojo?  Video button is grayed out.

What project parameters should I use?  Are those parameters affected if I use the 24P or 30P functions?

Any way to bring it in to MC?  Any way to bring it in progressive format?

I've seen some other posts about this but am hoping for some updated info.

Thanks,

Paul B

I have the HV20 (basically the same thing) and I take it in SD 2 ways. Over firewire using generic dv driver and also over compontent with firewire deck control. I haven't done a job it HD yet, as I don't have an HD board in my adrenaline. I did a test once and took in a small clip HDV over firewire just to see if it would work, and it did. In SD it embeds the 24 into a 29.97 stream that can be removed, but takes a few steps. I can't remember what happend when I brought it in HDV. We have the H1's and shoot at 24 all the time, so I use the 20 as my deck. I find the signal cleaner if I use the component method of ingest.

May not be new info, but it's how I work......

Mark

Well, first off it's a consumer cam and a pretty new one at that. It's probably a digital flavor the Mojo doesn't yet understand so, like the HDV cams, you probably have to unplug the Mojo and plug the cam directly into the CPU. Then, let the system auto config the deck template. It will probably suggest a generic deck template but that should work.

sorry, got it going with the mojo.  Its All Good.

But how are you removing the pulldown in 24P footage?

BobbyMurcerFan:

But how are you removing the pulldown in 24P footage?

Sorry, I didn't ready my original post from two months ago.

As explained to me my hbrock (several weeks agao) yhe HV30 doesn't record a true progressive image.  Its alwasys a 60i frame rate, but there's a sophisticated little trick that simulates the "pulldown cadence".  So the Avid is only seing an interlaced signal referenced at 59.97

I'm pretty sure (but not postive) the stuff I brought in was shot at the camera's (pretend) 30P setting.  But I'll test that further in the next couple of days, and with the other frame rates.

Incidentally, my monitoring situaiton is not up to speed yet for HD.  I don't have a DX box yet, and I'm using Full Screen playback on one of my LCDs.  The images I shot in this case are dark and noisey.  What's more is that I work with downrezzed monitors--I'm running them at 1024.   So this test is not completeley diagnostic.

I was merely trying to get any image into the MC out of that little camera, and had to full around with it quite a lot to get anything at all.  I've haven't cut anything either, so I don't know if the long GOPs of the HDV cause any problems.  

The feedback I've been getting is "stay away from HDV" so I'm sure I'll find out why soon enough.

I have an HV-20 and use it with Xpress Pro. Here's the deal:

The Hv-30/20 does indeed record true progressive 24P (23.976) images. There is no doubt about it. HOWEVER, it records them on to a 60i timeline. But the images are not interlaced, they are absolutely progressive.

This may sound confusing, but eventually you get your head around it. Do Wiki & Google searches on "pulldown," and go over to HV20.com for more info.

FWIW, here's how I get 24P HV-20 footage into Avid:

1) Capture in Sony Vegas.

2) Open the media file in TMPGEnc Xpress 4.0, and set the program to remove the pulldown and to transcode to DNxHD.

3) Import the DNxHD file into Avid.

Many other pulldown removal methods will not work properly with HV-30/20 footage because the camera does not add pulldown flags to the 60i timeline. W/o this info, many methods will hiccup.

I don't know how to do this on a Mac, but I imagine there must be a way. Unfortunately, all the programs I know (TMPGEnc Xpress 4.0, DVFilmmaker, Cineform) that will remove the HV-30/20's pulldown are for the PC.

BTW, I think your system is plenty fast to work with HD/HDV. Avid actually does HDV very well, IMHO.

My understanding from hbrock is that it isn't a true progressive frame--because its only half resolution.  Its actually a sophisticated trick--a duplicated (buffered) field.  Yes, its not interlaced.  No, the frame is not the same its 60i counterpart (1080 x 1440), which is of course made up of two half rez fields.

BobbyMurcerFan:

I don't know how to do this on a Mac, but I imagine there must be a way. Unfortunately, all the programs I know (TMPGEnc Xpress 4.0, DVFilmmaker, Cineform) that will remove the HV-30/20's pulldown are for the PC.

Anybody have any idea about how to do this on the Mac?  The goal would be to get a 24P quicktime file or MXF media file.

The HV-30 records progressive, full resolution frames by splitting each frame across at least two interlaced fields. The first field stores the odd lines of resolution and the second field stores the even lines. The result is a complete, full resolution recording of the progressive frame rate spread across two interlaced fields.

When the footage is correctly deinterlaced, each matching pair of interlaced fields is combined to make a sngle, whole progressive frame. It works and the result is a full resolution, progressive frame.

The format is technically called 24 PsF (progessive segmented frame).

That's fantastic.  How did you get information?  I really appreciate this.

So if the frame consists both odd and even lines of resolution that are slightly offset from one another in time (1/60th of a second), then why do we characterize this effect as progressive?

What's the difference between 24 PsF and "true progressive"?

The fields are not offest by a 1/60th of a second. The exact same 24P frame is split across two fields. So unlike with 60i, both fields represent the exact same time. Just one field has the odd lines and the other the even lines of resolution.

Put both fields together, and voila, you get a 100% real progressive image.

This is great feedback.  Thanks for sharing your experience.

So when you convert your media to MXF (using Vegas in the PC world), are you saying that (new) media can be used in an Avid 23.98 project?  If so, that's amazing

I'm just as interested in 30P as I am in 24P.  I'd love it if anyone can provide some feedback about how to do the conversion to MXF on the Mac.

Even though your conversion is happening on the PC, can you give some details please about what you selecting within your interface?  Because chances are MPEG Streamclips has the same handles.  I'm thinking I can bring the stuff into FCP and then use Streamclip or maybe even Compressor.

BTW: I have had some idiosyncrasies getting my camera to talk with the AVID.  I have had to restart the deck and Avid sometimes to get it to work.  Its not exactly solid, but it does seem to work if I play around with it long enough.

Actually Vegas creates a .m2t file. I run that file through TMPGEnc Xpress 4.0 to properly combine the fields and transcode into DNxHD.

When I import the DNxHD file into Avid, Avid very quickly creates an MXF file. Realize no MXF is created until the file is imported by Avid.

As for deck control, I've been using either a Canon XL or generic setting. I've found I should connect the camera and turn it on before going to the Capture toolset, and disconnect it after leaving the Capture toolset.

As for Mac, I have no idea. There are no magic settings for Vegas, but TMPGEnc's settings are very specific to the application. I'd suggest searching here more... and definitely going over to hv20.com. That's kind of the nexus of tips, tricks, info, etc. for these cameras.

HTH.

P.S. You may want to check out the JES Deinterlacer. Never used it, but might work and definitely worthy of looking into, IMHO.