I don't think it's the deciding factor, you don't buy an NLE to rip DVD's. I do think that Avid needs to be more flexible with some of the formats that are out there. In short, if the codec is on your machine, Avid should be able to decode it.

I don't think this is a major factor in purchasing an NLE, but I think flexibility in file imports is a consideration.

I agree. We are all saying the same thing. It would be great to import anything and everything but that's just not gonna happen. It's not there for a reason. Don't know what that is but that's the reality on the ground. A lot of high end systems won't rip DVDs, doesn't mean they need to allocate precious engineering resource to do something that is perfectly easy to do with existing workflows. 

Again, please don't think that this thread is the first time Avid has heard this request. It's been around since the first DVD drive was included in a CPU.

 MPEG Stream Clip? Forgive my stupidity, but I'm not sure what you're talking about.

What is it? And How do I use it to import MPEG 2 Files?

It seems that Blkdog's arguments come down to these:

1. Easy Mpeg2 encoding is very hard for AVID to do - since they haven't done it already.

Response: You are assuming this "fact". It may be that AVID simply does not want to do it. Or there may be a licencsing fee somewhere they do not want to pay. Regardless, we do not know why they have not implemented mpeg2. It's possible that AVID could easily add this feature. You simply don't know. So, pretending otherwise is illogical.

2. AVID should not waste resources on Mpeg2 encoding, since they need these resources elsewhere - especially since there is a work-around.

Response: This feature is clearly not important to YOU. It is clearly VERY important to others. There is a clear fallacy runnning through all of your posts - namely that your (Blkdog's) workflow is the primary driving force of AVID inc, and I would argue that this is not the case. Although "wasting" resources on this feature may not make any sense to some folks, I think it's time to explore the possibility that other folks aren't you. You don't mind work-arounds. fine. We're not you.Go back through this thread and replace the word "mpeg 2" with "PAL". Just 'cause some folks don't need PAL, doesn't mean that it should be ignored. Could PAL folks buy a converter box as a "work-around"? Maybe. Should they have to? No.

To re-state a very elegant point made above, AVID should do what the cheap software does - and more. Not less.

http://www.squared5.com/

You use MPEG StreamClip to convert any MPEG file to QT or Avi or whatever. 

From the squared5 home page: 

" You can use MPEG Streamclip to open and play most movie formats including MPEG files or transport streams; edit them with Cut, Copy, Paste, and Trim; set In/Out points and convert them into muxed or demuxed files, or export them to QuickTime, AVI, DV and MPEG-4 files with more than professional quality, so you can easily import them in a DVD authoring tool, and use them with many other applications or devices.

Supported input formats: MPEG, VOB, PS, M2P, MOD, VRO, DAT, MOV, DV, AVI, MP4, TS, M2T, MMV, REC, VID, AVR, M2V, M1V, MPV, AIFF, M1A, MP2, MPA, AC3, ... "

J_schinderlin56:

 MPEG Stream Clip? Forgive my stupidity, but I'm not sure what you're talking about.

What is it? And How do I use it to import MPEG 2 Files?

 An MPG Stream refers to the file. You have a video "stream" and an audio "stream". They are either separate elements (an elementary stream) producing an m2v and a wav or "muxed" together as an program stream.giving an one mpg file with the A/V married together. If you pull in the file nativley without transcoding you are pulling in the "stream".

Hope that makes sense.

 Oops, it's the name of software! Sorry.

Atomike:

This feature is clearly not important to YOU. It is clearly VERY important to others.

 

You could say this about any feature.  For some users secondary color correction is very important, others don't need secondary color correction. Surround sound mixing may be important to you but not important to me. etc. etc. etc.

Your solution is to have Avid do everything.  Nevermind that the code would become so bloated that it would slow the machine down to a crawl. 

Atomike:

I think it's time to explore the possibility that other folks aren't you.

Hi,

I'm another folk who's not him, and I don't care about DVD import, either.  As Haze put so well, everybody wants something, and everybody thinks the thing they want is crucially important.  Unfortunately, there's a finite amount of money and time, so what are you gonna do?

good luck,
Carl

"Your solution is to have Avid do everything.  Nevermind that the code would become so bloated that it would slow the machine down to a crawl.  "

I don't think it should do everything under the sun. I'm just saying that FCP/Premeire are real competetors now and they can use any file your machine can decode. Would the code really get bloated from using a codec already on the system? That's how the other NLE's do it.  I'm not a programmer so I really don't know, but I don't think it's an unreasonable request. I don't think I'm alone either given the replies in this thread.

Again, I don't need it or care too much, but apparrently it is a concern for a lot of guys.

 It's a good idea to put MPEG Streamclip on a different computer than your Avid workstation, because it requires a different version of Quicktime than Avid does. You will be prompted about this during the download.

 Ok.

DOG Do I understand correct that you think the addition of DVD support or any other needed format would be a good addition but that you find it a waste of the R&D team cause YOU don't need it? And therefor you believe nobody needs it?

I happely record from my dvd recorder thru it's component output. More easy it does not get.

But I do not think it's the desired workflow. Any time the R&D team put into better Integration of all common formats I do not see as wasted time but as very well spended time. It will improve avid's competitiveness in great ways... even if I do not need it.

It takes away the details why one would choose FCP or premiere.

Blofelds Cat:

Try explaining to a pissed-off Producer or News Producer that your f**k-off NLE was actually incapable of directly importing the single-most widespread file format in use at that time.

....Ahhh ha ha ha ha ha ha ! You put it so succinctly my friend ! What Avid engineers seem to forget is half or more of the local Tv stations broadcast off of Server PC's which have all their video files in MPEG 2 ! 50 % of our time is spent ripping and encoding to QT uncompressed files and then importing those into Avid to edit, only to deliver back on SD DVD again. We are called low rent wannabees because we deal with our client's DVD source material ? Rediculous ! There's no High end-low end blah blah blah here ! There's just the work !. MPEG 2 in its variants of HDV and SD DVD are the very bain of our company's existence.

...I think SD DVD file ingest is a fundamental requirement.

Blofelds Cat:

BTW, the nationwide Broadcaster I work for has dumped Avid in favour of FCP (for Production work)

 ....Ouch ! I bet that hurt (Avid) !

Blofelds Cat:

The line between low-end and high-end NLE applications is rapidly blurring and Avid is in desperate need of a new pair of eyeglasses.

Atomike:

You are assuming this "fact". It may be that AVID simply does not want to do it.

Nope, not assuming anything. I know for a fact that, if it were possible, it would be done.

Atomike:

This feature is clearly not important to YOU. It is clearly VERY important to others.

Throughout this ridiculous thread I have always prefaced each of my opinions stated with "for me" or 'in my case" et. al. I have never said that my opinions should apply to your situation. In every post I have stated that my opinion is just the other side of the fence.

Atomike:

Go back through this thread and replace the word "mpeg 2" with "PAL". Just 'cause some folks don't need PAL,

Typing inequitable comparisons does not make your point. You could just as easily replace the word MPEG with the word breathing but it doesn't make the comparison valid.

Fact is, there are some who would like this (actually we all would) and another camp that thinks, it would be great but not a big yank. For me, personally (see I did it again), I could care less one way or the other. I simply mean to let you know what i know from working with this company for going on 18 years. 

1. If it were, at all, possible, it would have been done by now.

2. This has been a request for years

3. There are agreements and/or policies in place that have dictated Avid's course. It is not an engineering issue.

jveekeres:

DOG Do I understand correct that you think the addition of DVD support or any other needed format would be a good addition but that you find it a waste of the R&D team cause YOU don't need it? And therefor you believe nobody needs it?

Nope, read above and what I have said throughout this thread. Personally, for me, it's not important...you make your own pleas to the company.

I...me only, nobody else....would like Avid to focus on Raid 5 for unity, Red workflows, P2 improvements, HDCam batch import improvements, et. al before making it easier for me to use sub-standard video in my programs.