Atomike:

Just wanted to make sure my tiny brain can keep up with your logic.

Apparently not. This is what I mean when I refer to "teeth gnashing". Please go back and read what I wrote. I never said, anywhere that anyone should switch systems for one codec. What I SAID was if your WORKFLOW and/or regular demands from your clients/acquisition  requires you to use this codec then you need to use a different NLE to make your life easier. I really don't understand the problem here. I use many NLEs every day to accomplish what I need to do. Until the DX boxes came out I did ALL of my HD work in Final Cut because that's what did the job best.

So, if it's that critical to your workflow to have this codec implemented today, you are going to be much better off cutting in, say, FCP or Premier. Nothing wrong with that, just another tool to get the job done. 

Sure It'd be great to have Avid convert every format ever thought of but it's just not gonna happen right now/ So, while it seems vitally import to a few users in this thread, I simply offer the other side of the coin. To a lot of other users (Like me) it is just not that big of a deal....

Atomike:

Blkdog, since we all keep missing your point, let me see if I can get it straight.

Avid doesn't support Mpeg2 - even though other software which costs 1/4 the price does.

Therefore, pro editors should simply switch systems. That's the solution to this problem, right?. Are we wrong for simply wishing that AVID would keep up to date? We should never demand that AVID keeps current. Rather we should just switch systems.

Just wanted to make sure my tiny brain can keep up with your logic.

There is this persistent myth that high-end solution support every feature found on low end products. This is and was never the case. Inferno and flame do not support MPEG natively - among other functions. An IBM Blade server from one of our clients does not have firewire. But a $500 iMac does. My neighbor's mini van has 12 cup holders and a DVD player. A Ferrari F50 probably has 2.

(Disclaimer I hate car analogies :) )

Point is, engineering time is a finite resource. Developers must choose what features will be added and what bugs must be crushed by a given date. MPEG 2 SD has slipped through the cracks all this time as I have mentioned above. I am not saying it is not important for some of us, it obviously is. I am saying that MC's targeted core user (broadcast and such) had no urgent need for it. This is why a lot of experience MC users (I, Blkddog and the rest) have just used external apps and hardware to solve this particular issue.

Well now, many of the younger and "lower end" (lack for a better word and means no disrespect) see MC competing in the same space as Adobe Premiere and Sony Vegas. This is why you have this thread.

It would be 'nice' for me for Avid to support it natively. But it is not crucial for me. I still have to rip DVDs which itself is a painful step. And apps I use already rip and QT encode in one step. So it is not like, Avid MPEG SD is going to make that big of a difference for me.

You have expressed my thoughts much more eloquently than I could today Dom. Thank you.

Wow - a true forum stereotype at work. As soon as Blkdog wrote "you misunderstood what I said" I was thinking, "Gee, I wonder how long before he tells folks to go back and re-read x, y or z".  And man, it didn't take long. I must applaud.

Here's the rub - almost all of us think that AVID should have this basic feature. That's all we're saying. Do you disagree with this? No? Then we agree that AVID SHOULD DO IT.

Look we all agree.

Atomike:

Here's the rub - almost all of us think that AVID should have this basic feature.

No, and this is all I am meaning to impart here, there is a large contingent of Avid's core customer base...Myself, Dom and others in our corner of the professional world, who could care less. Not a value judgement or, in any way, an indictment of your working style, just a reality in my personal situation. If Avid included it, fine, it would be a nice addition but, if they don't I'm good with that too.

With all the formats like Red and proper P2 workflows we need, I would rather engineering spend time on those instead of this codec.

Just two sides of the coin, two different opinions. Certainly nothing that deserves all of the drama in this thread.

People are getting too sensitive and/or defensive because we do not hold the same value to this particular feature request. I don't think it is all that offensive to tell someone to suggest a different workflow or product. This is pretty much done here everyday by everyone ("Use QT Pro - don't use Windows Media" "Shoot DVC Pro not HDV"etc).  I understand it is a feature request. You do have to understand posting it for public consumption that not everyone will agree with you. Such is life. I say better Symphony CC and RAID 5 on Unity, pretty sure not everyone got that on top of their list either.

Just a thought here . . .If there is such a demand for mpeg-2, aren't there a bunch of 3rd party developers out there who would have sold it as a plugin? I'm very ignorant about how these things work, but wouldn't you think that if there was money to be made someone would be making it?

Peace.

I don't think anyone's been emotionally upset- just a discussion of a couple seemingly odd feature omissions,

for me... the capture/import feature set has not only struck me as clunky and problem prone in some ways but also certainly it CAN'T be the absolutely perfect capture toolset as it is- seems obvious to me- it would sure help me to have fewer problems in capture and import.

Who hasn't had time consuming weirdnesses in the capture and import process? Can't speak for anyone but myself...

I think it's all a good talk about a basic concept- no big woop... everybody's been cool. I've seen freakier!

 It looks a bit like we have the "younger and lower-end" view on one side and the "forum stereotype" on the other. (Actually I find AtomMike's choice of words "forum stereotype" to be on the disrespectful side - but let's not dwell on that)

I think I would place myself in a 3rd category - the "older and lower-end" user.
I wonder what AtomMike's statement "Here's the rub - almost all of us think that AVID should have this basic feature." is based on?

I for one am with the "forum stereotypes " on the whole mpeg-2 question.
I came from Avid/Pinnacle Liquid about 7 months ago. At that time I was exculsively working with mpeg-2 and m2t/m2ts files.
Taking the step up to MC, I realised that I would have to change my workflow and my attitude.
Having done this to the best of my ability - I don't miss or have any problems editing without the mpeg-2 option.

Finishing on a wider topic....... It was to be expected that after Avid began the New-thinking strategy that many newcomers (myself included) would find their way from "lower-end" NLEs to MC. This flow of migrants is being met by helpful and respectful "forum stereotypes".
We "lower-end" users (younger or older) should actually take of our hats when we enter here and show the established members the good manners and respect that they deserve.

We can state our opinions and disagree with what they say......... but don't forget they have a lot of experience and knowledge in areas which are new to us.

End of sermon

Regards

Douglas

Source material on DVD - bush league editing.

Agreed.  Or is it really MPEG2 import = DVD cracking?

Ok, that's not what this thread is about. Fact is, MPEG 2 is necessary at times. Not desirable, but necessary. Let's stick to the topic at hand and avoid the value judgements please.

Whenever I get a client with a DVD source file two things happen: 

#1)  They get all giddy because I know how to get the video off of the DVD for editing.  (you and your system appear very professional to the client)

#2)  My project estimate doubles to factor in the "conversion from DVD format" time. (and that's exactly what I put on the invoice/estimate too)

So, in the end for me at least, Avid not supporting direct native import of consumer formats has been a pseudo cash cow.

Fazz Powell:

 It may seem old school, but yeah we get clients walking in with DVDs all the time so in each edit suite we have a DVD player and the compoment outputs are on our patch bay, so we digitize via component. Badda boom, badda bing... our Avids support MPEG2 just fine and we're not waiting around for an import, as oftern we just need a clip and don't need to rip the whole DVD.

 This is also what I do if I need to pull video off a DVD, but my issue isn't with DVD stuff. I produce 30 minute doc style News programs. All of the stuff that our station puts out to air runs off of a server type playback system. All of the 30 sec spots that are stored on that system are MPEG 2. Every now and then I have to pull a spot off of the server and I can't. I walk into our chief engineer's edit bay and say,"Hey can you give me that website spot?" He says "It's on the server" and I say "But it's an MPEG and I can't import that, can you give me an AVI?" and he says  "That's ridiculous, Vegas can import an MPEG". He wastes his time making me an AVI and I have to walk back to the edit bay extremely irritated. 

Oh Best Editor in the world, once we posted a tread to let you know we need to import mpeg2 because thats how we want to work.

The tread got as much written response as your new Best Editor in the world ver 3.0 in only 2 days.

Maby we can find work-arounds and 3rd party software for our (below the line) productions, but I am here today to show you proof that we , The best EDITORS in the world, need a mpeg2 import, directly into our Best Editor.