Job ter Burg:

The Avid is a system solution

You can't compare cars with software. Let me put it like this, this is what will happen to Avid if this continues: They will go down...Why?

Because there are alternetives that works better or just the same.

Take Mac for example, they had a great start but their limitations made people abandon it and go to other alternetives (DOS). But at least they could have it. For starters, Avid does have limitations! Or Windows now, it will fall away because it has restrictions (BSOD, Price) and sooner or later Linux will take over it...

I watched online (stores) and it didn't say anything that this product doesn't work with that or this. The only requirments were the OS, Memory, Graphic Card and a #### (don't remember, probarly 2d or something) compadible card. The thing is, my sound card is compadible with that it mentioned.

If you think that the hardware needs to be compadible with the software you are so wrong, yes.. the only it needs to work with is the OS (and Bios of course). Nothing more! Then, the developers have to make their software fit with the avaible hardware. What you are saying now is basically let the software makers make their products (but they can't test it since there is no hardware), then let the manufacturers make their hardware and hope that software works on it.

Besides, why should I change my sound card if it works just fine (only Avid products have issues with it) when I'm not certain the replacement card works with my other more imporant applications.

I assure you, the error message (The "not licensed to run this software") was recived and my work have paid for it. I don't know the situation right now...

And please, writing in caps lock and putting several exclamtion marks after doesn't make your point more vaild. It's just annoying to read!

 When running Avid applications, ESPECIALLY Media Composer, you leave the realm of the personal computer and enter that of the dedicated workstation. That means your computer runs Avid and only those applications you need to support it, like Photoshop, After Effects, Sorenson Squeeze, SonicDVDit, and the like. No anti-virus programs running in the background while Avid is running, and particularly in the PC world no internet, no automatic updates and no gaming. Avid software is some of the most demanding ever written for the desktop environment and pushes your computer right to it's performance limits. It is a resource and memory hog. Lean and mean is the way to go.

These are the realities of the love and hate relationship we all have with Avid, and that is why you are being steered in the direction of qualified systems. Believe it or not, people here are really trying to help you have a smooth experience, but Avid software is not a one size fits all product, nor was it ever intended to be. It is very finicky and demanding. Perhaps in your case, Avid is not the product for you. Only you can make that call.

tpiom:

If you think that the hardware needs to be compadible with the software you are so wrong, yes.

No, if you think that the software needs to be compatible with any of the thousands of possible combinations of hardware then you are so wrong, yes.

Avid is software designed for the broadcast and professional film industries.  It is highly resource hungry, and as such is designed to work reliably with a qualified pool of hardware.  If you vary from the specification it may work, but Avid can't guarantee it.  If your business depends on you having reliable equipment then you'll go the Avid preferred path.

To put this in context, I've never had an Avid approved system, but I've also never had any issues with the software.  However I have the time and resources to get the system stable.  At the moment I'm building a quadcore system.  It's running MC 3, but I'm yet to cut it over, because I haven't yet found it's weak points.

Unless you can do the same, go Avid qualified.

I think the best part of this is the original user has only just joined the forums to vent frustration on a product over 2 years old (4.8). Just for pure fun, how about you post the specs of the systems you company has been installing Avid on.

At this point you blame Avid for their incompatibility with you companies hardware - as you clearly pointed out, you never paid for Avid, the company did - instead of blaming your IT/support department for buying software and not following the required specifications.

Even on Premiere Pro (any version) has required system specification that must be met to even run all the options available. Every piece of software has minimum requirements (hardware), and when you get to a professional software level those requirement get very specific. Heck even FCP must run on a Mac system.. how's that for specific hardware requirements. Would complain about Apple and FCP if your company purchased FCP and it failed to install/work on a PC system? Of course not.. because that is what the software was designed to work on... guaranteed. This is the same with Avid.. their software was designed to run on specific, tested/approved systems and guaranteed to work. You go outside of the requirements - you take your chances, but you cannot blame the software manufacturer for your companies misguided handling.

I have to directly comment on this one thing;

"I'm not certain the replacement card works with my other more imporant applications."

According to you, the software applications should work with any hardware configuration, right? That is your entire argument, that software developers should be making their programs run, regardless of having specific hardware. So your company should have no issues - if they actually would want to run Avid - in making these upgrades. The worst that will happen is Avid won't work... but they still have everything else running.

P.S. Welcome to the forums - if you actually want to get Avid working, system specs, hardware/software configurations, ask questions..

The bigger issue here, TO ME AT LEAST, is that AVID, which I have used for 8 years now is, IN MY EXPERIENCE a very, very, very frustrating system, riddled with stability issues, and produced by a company that is very difficult to communicate with and does not make the customer feel appreciated. I think this very important. When your system goes down, you feel very alone. The phone support in my experience is far from impressive, the "certified techs" we have hired knew less than we knew... in short, as an AVID customer many of us dont feel noticed or acknowledged or cared about. This is not how you treat a customer, especially in a high-dollar industry with so much on the line with our deadlines. (AVID often reminds me of an airline)

So here is some reality. In very real business terms, FCP has done significant damage to AVIDs market share. I attribute this in part to AVID's cold shoulder approach to customers -- something AVID could do when they all but monopolized the scene.

I understand this is not someone many of you like to hear and when I say it, it generally causes knee-jerk reactions in many people -- some defend avid, some attack me (often), many criticize FCP, and some of the more uninformed say things like, "FCP is not doing anything to AVID at all, AVID is kicking FCPs butt!"  which is just not true. Sometimes people say "Yes, perhaps AVID should pay attention..." but they are few and far between. Just like Bush supporters and global warming.

It seems to me, the right response to a post like the one at the top of this strand is "Hey, maybe we are not serving you, our customer correctly... what can we do to help?" But this needs to come from AVID. Not us. BLKDOG was kind and nice (as he always is cuz he's great) to offer assistance. But the company needs to show it's face here a lot more to let people know they care. I have been out here a few years now and I never see AVID out here... to me that is just plain rude.

(And if I might add, AVID would be well advised to cut a check to BLKDOG and some others out here for a few hundred thousand dollars each. Without their free tech help out here a lot of people would be eviscerating AVID in court by now.)

So I see now that AVID has their new thinking message... "you asked us to change"... the fact of the matter is, NO company, (shall I say that again?)... NO COMPANY says something like this until they are in severe pain, beaten down, forced to surrender, begging for mercy. If you think otherwise, you are just wrong.   

But like the spouse who says "Sorry... Ill change" ... the proof is over the long haul. Put it this way, I like AVID now... but I aint buying their stock anytime soon.

Question... how many Apple folks are clearly apparent in their forums? How directly is Apple communicating with their customers?

You keep throwing all of this Avid bad - when every company is the same. They handle the customers as that.. customers. Good, bad, indifferent... you get the same response from Apple tech support as you do with Avid.. you get the same response from Ford service centre as you do from Volvo...

The Apple forums are filled with the same comments you see across the Avid boards, and vice-versa. Bottom line, what are you comfortable with? With Avid you get to choose the system (PC or Mac) which you feel comfortable with - where's the choice with FCP? This is not to knock Apple, as they can develop their software as they see fit - but why is it Avid is held to a lower standard that it should work with anything?

Market share this, market share that... until the day a company announce their take-over, or their closure, who cares. Does the software do what you want?

I have been using Avid since 1991 and never had an issue in installing any of their software systems on approved systems. However some people do.. some don't. You could list the same for those FCP users too... or Windows, or [insert other software name here]. It happens.

My best Avid story is back in 1994-ish. I was editing on MC and the dongle 'timed out'. Now this was a fully purchased system. This was also a late Friday night, early Saturday morning when this happened. It took me calling Avid across the globe, and I mean Singapore to California, to get this issue resolved. It turns out that the dongles were built in Ireland, there were a large batch that were for leased systems and another for purchased systems - these got mixed up. Avid had no clue on tracking these until they received calls about them. I ended up receiving the update, first thing, Monday morning from Avid London. This was prior to the internet explosion and so a physical disc had to be shipped from one location to another then a courier to me. What a fiasco.. but, ultimately, it was fixed - we were put two days behind schedule... alright.

I absolutely love that story because, for me, it was so much fun (I like a challenge and working things out) to go around the world in a couple of days (telephone-wise) and getting it running. Was Avid at fault - yes. Did they make good and fix the issue - yes. My point being, working with - as opposed to against - usually works in your favour. All the moaning and finger pointing is mostly avoided by following the system requirements.. yes, there are some with approved systems that have issues... but those issues usually get worked out. There are times when this does not happen... alright, for your company look at another solution. Avid lose out... why do you care of the market share of Avid? You got your solution working.. move along.

Damn, did I just go off... it seems like only the other week I posted a rant... oh wait, it was last week.

vvp:

Avid is very clear about what computers their software will run on reliably.

If you try it on non-approved gear you may have a less then satisfactory experience.

Exactly....everyone needs to realize the amazing flexibility that Avid offers all of us.  I can choose to run on a Mac or on a PC.  I'm already ahead of the game over other NLE's with that simple option.  But it doesn't stop there....Avid takes the time to thoroughly test their software on two hardware/software platforms and then give us a "safe list" to choose from.

Everyone that purchases unsupported hardware for a professional application, and then gripes about it, needd to think that through.  It is like buying the latest Porsche, using regular gasoline because you don't want to spend for the higher octane and then griping to the dealership because it isn't running smooth.  They are going to say one thing: "are you kidding me?"

One thing I will say...and I've always said...This software is for professionals. That is people who have dedicated their lives and careers to making money with Non Linear editors. 

However, as I was telling folks at Avid, I'm an Avid Jedi and, up until recently, even I began to have a tough time keeping some of these systems running. It was getting  very tough, to be fair.

Now, however, I truly do believe that we, as professional, are coming out of the dark times. 3.0 is back to the rock solid reputation that Avid is built on and the company finally has a team at the helm that is 100% customer focused. 

So, while it's true that Avid, as a company was proving more difficult to stomach by the day, I do believe that those times are now over and we should all try looking toward the Horizon and not back at the dock.

I can certainly understand your frustration and I know there are many others like us.  I had the opposite problem.  I had been using Adobe's garbage for over a decade and just switched back to Avid.  I'm starting to think it was a mistake, but I know Adobe's junk doesn't perform any better.

Seems a good time for someone else to jump into the game.   The only other "pro" editing software I know of is Media 100, but I never really liked it.  I guess I'm stuck with Avid for awhile.  How long?  Don't know, but I have yet to uninstall Premiere CS3, so Avid better get it together QUICK!

I'm sick and tired of being an unpaid beta tester for these clowns.  It seems today we have NO "PRO" editing software available.  Since coming back to Avid, I have had (2) updates completely fail, and the last, screwqed up my system so bad I had to reinstall everything.  Hey AVID, I've got an original idea.  Test your crap BEFORE you sell it!

Would you expect a moderator to say anything less.  Sorry, your opinion really doesn't matter to those who spent good money and have the proper hardware and Avid still does NOT work and support is horrible.

CR8VDO:

Would you expect a moderator to say anything less.  Sorry, your opinion really doesn't matter to those who spent good money and have the proper hardware and Avid still does NOT work and support is horrible.

His matters more than yours- at least in my perspective (who learned editing with MSP and Premiere. Have used Edius. Makes a living with Avid and FCP).

BTW - complaining about a software that you obviously did not follow the recommended specs is quite confusing. Maybe you should start with a qualified hardware setup?

That was very unprofessional comment.

"That was very unprofessional comment."

Agreed.

BLKDOG has been around these boards for many years and is a user - as you are - who has extensive experience and background with Avid. You feel you need to come to the forum and put down their opinion because....?

Well, I may as well join your team, become a petty child and be sure to avoid any posts where you request help that I may be able to answer.

CR8VDO:

It seems today we have NO "PRO" editing software available.

This in my opinion is due largely to the proliferation of "desktop" editing systems.  In the days when the computer only "aided" the process of digital image editing, you didn't have all kinds of end users who thought they could slap some edit software on any old box they got from their local computer store.

Professional level tools become less professional level when they are accessible to the masses.  It's a common fact in any field.  The only way to ensure your own success as a professional is to use professional level tools and to act as a professional. 

CR8VDO:

I'm sick and tired of being an unpaid beta tester for these clowns.

a)  I believe most Beta testers for any software are unpaid

b)  if you don't like the way the game is played, play a different game.  

Myself and many other people all over the world use and have used all kinds of software with very little issue.

CR8VDO:

Hey AVID, I've got an original idea.  Test your crap BEFORE you sell it!

Believe me, they do... on the systems that they list as supported.  If something goes amiss on your end that only you are experiencing - then it's not a lack of testing that caused your issue. 

It seems from the brief history that you outlined in your post that you have general issues with software.  I used Premiere 5.1 up to 6.5 for a number of years and while I encountered a large percentage of issues, I honestly believe they were the result of the system I was running it on.  I've used Photoshop and After Effects for the last 3+ yrs consistently and have not any issues that warrants me calling it "garbage".  I now use FCP, MC, Photoshop, After Effects and all kinds of other workflow utility software on my MacPro and can not say that I feel like I'm a "beta tester" in the least.

Which one is easier: to create an omnipotent application that is flexible enough to embrace a vast spectrum of possible hard- and software combinations, or to build a workstation that fits a list of approved system requirements?

I can't tweak MC to support my system, but I can very well tweak my system to support MC. And considering the pricetags I perceive the workstation to be a supplement to the editing application, not the other way round.