Everyone who is complaining that they feel Avid 'did not disclose' information regarding the "FUTURE" package seems to avoid one thing;

"And? GM offers better deal after a 'sale event'. Do you go back to your dealer?"

What Avid did is the same as every other company on the planet. They offered a product to their customer base - with EVERYONE knowing full well a new product was due in June - that's like buying equipment in March, right before NAB in April, then complaining "hey, what's with theis new equipment just released, better than what I purchased in March and the same price too?"

At the end of the day, it is the customers rush to get something for the deal offered.. then getting upset that, instead of admitting they jumped the gun, point the blame at the company offering the deal. Those who purchased prior to 3.0 - you purchased early and lost out - I guess your business savvy (especially those large companies who offer thousands of dollars of work for free to their customer base) was not so savvy this time.

And as for me 'defending' Avid like my country - not true.. see the 'car dealer offer' references. I am making a point that, having being repeated, the customer is to blame and not the company. I reference Avid as this is their boards and the folks are complaining about Avid.

 Solopost and Dom,

If so many customers "complain" as you say all the time, about the exact same thing mayby just maybe the is a little chance that they are right?  Its not even a possibility  for you that customers maybe right. I hope you dont treat your customers like that. And for all your car dealers examples, well I dont remember downloading a car ever, and dealers never sold me a car with a price of 2008 model and it actually was 2007.If that would happen I would defenetly go back to him.

Avid sold us OLD STUFF and made us belive its just temporary and its ok and we will get the new stuff in june, just buy now. 

In this situation I cant go back I can only talk to the walls and you guys support that.

"...for all your car dealers examples, well I dont remember downloading a car ever, and dealers never sold me a car with a price of 2008 model and it actually was 2007."

Avid never sold 2.8 as 3.0 - they sold us 2.8 and said, 'if you buy Media Composer 2.8 now, you are guaranteed a free upgrade to 3.0.'

"Avid sold us OLD STUFF and made us belive its just temporary and its ok and we will get the new stuff in june, just buy now."

And that is exactly what happened. They sold us 2.8 (temporarily) and we got 3.0 in June... where's the problem.

Going back to the car analogy, let's keep away from the ridiculous "well I dont remember downloading a car ever.."...

Buy a car at 7%APR (and getting a newer model later free) - 1 month later everyone can buy the new car for 0% APR - do you complain to the car company? You may vent about it.. But is it the car companies fault that YOU thought the deal was great. Even after the car company said, 'in 1 month the new car will be available.' This is the buyers impulse. 

I purchased the MC2.8 boxed with everyone else - and got MC2.8 with a free upgrade to 3.0 - just what I expected, wanted and was offered.

For those who cry foul of Avid's deceit - again.. look in the mirror and blame the one looking back at you.

"I hope you dont treat your customers like that."

Regardless of how I deal with my customers - in this business most projects are on a case-by-case basis. Again, you take this to the ridiculous level with comparing Apples to T-Bone Steak.

Shortly after Avid announced the termination of Xpress Pro they announced the potential release of a new version of MC in June,  At that stage it was made quite clear that a free upgrade to version 3.0 would be available to those who upgraded to MC 2.8 from Xpro.  It was also made quite clear that the upgrade price from Xpro 5.8 to MC would remain at its current level for the foreseeable future.

If you were impatient to get your hands on MC and you bought the boxed version you got all of the third-party apps that Avid were bundling at the time.  The free upgrade to MC 3.0 was not a boxed upgrade - they never have been as far as I recall - you don't get the third party software.

IT WAS EVER THUS!!!!!

I upgraded early before the June release had been officially announced, and after significant rumours about a new release had circulated.  Would I like the latest versions of the third party apps?  Well, yes if they were being given away.  Do I expect them with a free download?  Why on earth would I expect that?

So stop whining and get on with earning your living, so you can get the upgrades if and when you need them.

chervas:

do you know what is the academic pricing to upgrade from 2.7 to 3.0, and how to do it?

Hi Carlos,

Take a look at this page:

http://www.avid.com/register/30_cpr_form.asp

There is more information about educational upgrades on this thread:

http://community.avid.com/forums/t/59986.aspx

good luck,
Carl

 "Going back to the car analogy, let's keep away from the ridiculous "well I dont remember downloading a car ever.."

My analogy is ridiculous as yousr. Software is NOT hardware. It doesnt cost the same and we as inteligent customers knows the difference. your car analogy han no relevans.

you answered all my quesion but one : If so many customers from all over the world feel the same, is there a possibility that they are right?

"Avid never sold 2.8 as 3.0 - they sold us 2.8 and said, 'if you buy Media Composer 2.8 now, you are guaranteed a free upgrade to 3.0."

You know I wasnt talking about MC I was talking only about 3rd party softwares.

 Its ok to defend Avid Im doing it a lot but this time Avid did wrong by using they're loyal  customers to get rid of some old stuff from the shelf.

"If so many customers from all over the world feel the same, is there a possibility that they are right?"

I don't, personally, have a head count of how many folks feel upset about this - only the few that have posted on the forums so cannot make an educated answer.

"Avid never sold 2.8 as 3.0 - they sold us 2.8 and said, 'if you buy Media Composer 2.8 now, you are guaranteed a free upgrade to 3.0."

You know I wasnt talking about MC I was talking only about 3rd party softwares."

And there you have it. Avid do not sell 3rd party softwares - they never offered 3rd party softwares as part of THEIR software upgrade - the have NEVER offered 3rd party softwares as part of ANY product upgrade.

Avid offered a free upgrade to 3.0 - that's it. That is what people purchased. That is what people got.

"Avid did wrong by using they're loyal  customers to get rid of some old stuff from the shelf."

And every year manufacturers do the same thing - they discount their old stuff to get rid of it to make way for the new stuff. Only difference.. Avid said 'buy old stuff now (2.8) [no mention of 3rd party software ANYWHERE] and get new stuff (3.0) free when available'. Strangely enough.. that is exactly what happened.

""Going back to the car analogy, let's keep away from the ridiculous "well I dont remember downloading a car ever.."

My analogy is ridiculous as yousr."

You argument was you cannot remember ever downloading a car from the internet... mine was based in the present, real world.

"Software is NOT hardware. It doesnt cost the same and we as inteligent customers knows the difference. your car analogy han no relevans.""

I understand the differences - hence the use of the analogy.

Let me break it down...
Avid offer MC2.8 boxed now with free MC3.0 upgrade.
Car company offer 2007 model, for 7% APR, now with free 2008 model upgrade.
Folks take the offer.

1 month later
Avid offers MC3.0 boxed for same price as MC2.8
Car company offers 2008 model for 0% APR.

Whose fault is it for BUYERS not getting the 'better' deal.

Either way buyers get the new MC3.0 (as advertised)
Either way buyers get the new 2008 model (as advertised)

Buyers took an earlier offer - BUYERS.

Why are buyers blaming the car company/Avid for THEIR decision?

The argument is not what folks say Avid 'did', but the fact that this is what businesses do. They offer deals to make way for new stuff... the car company/Avid offered a product - everyone got that deal they made. Now because the offer of product was 'updated' - buyers go and complain to the car company/Avid they should be entitled to the new offer.

The analogy is just replacing the Avid product with a car - not saying you could 'download' a car. Although when that happens - your statement would then work.

As I said before, if this is folks venting their own impulse to buy the latest version for the deal it was... then enjoy. But for those folks who blame Avid for their own impulse to buy the latest version and, 1 month later, the newer version comes out which they still get for free - which again was stated and offered as 2.8 to 3.0 (3rd party software was never mentioned as part of any deal) - I see no reason for the complaint. [:'(]

yairorene:

If so many customers from all over the world feel the same, is there a possibility that they are right?

Hi,

There's a possibility that they are right, but there's an equal possibility that they are wrong.  Sheer numbers don't make something right or wrong. 

good luck,
Carl

 Solopost

Lets agree that we disagree.

We think differently about company customer relationships.

Nice takling to you

All the best.

 I said I wasn't going to say any more  and I won't about the upgrade, but

The day any business starts laying the blame for a customers dissatisfaction about a product or service on the fact that the customer bought the companies product or service too quickly, is a very sad day.

As for the argument about if enough people are compaining maybe there is some truth in it,  I for one take every customers dissatisfaction very seriously and try to resolve it, so far we have heard nothing.

Sorry for starting the car analogy, I think its run its ground.

I grew up in a world where the default assumption was 'the customer is always right' I always interpreted this to mean that even when they may be wrong, the blame may lay with me or my company in assisting the customer to get it wrong. At a time with increased competition from FCP and the 'new thinking' I would have thought Avid would be concerned at the grievances being aired.

I still feel that as a business Avid should want every customer to buy each and every one of its products as soon as they are released, they should do every thing in their power to create an environment in which customers feel confident to do so. It seems presently they are happy for people to wait until they desperatley need the product this can be years after it became available.

Finally, I am a little dissapointed as possibly the originator of this topic that an air of aggressiveness seems to be creeping in which was never my intention.

Graham

sasfog:

...so far we have heard nothing.

Hi Graham,

Part of why we haven't heard anything is that this is a user forum rather than a place to complain to Avid directly.  If you'd like to let them know of your disappointment, your best bet is to contact Marianna Montague directly, as she is Avid's customer advocate, and can take your concerns to the relevant people in Avid.

good luck,
Carl

"The day any business starts laying the blame for a customers dissatisfaction about a product or service on the fact that the customer bought the companies product or service too quickly, is a very sad day." 

Are we not glad that Avid is not blaming customers then.

"I grew up in a world where the default assumption was 'the customer is always right' I always interpreted this to mean that even when they may be wrong, the blame may lay with me or my company in assisting the customer to get it wrong."

But common sense prevails when the customer is not always right. Sometimes they are mistaken, get upset and proclaim their right.. when they are not. Even though there are those who are posting complaints on the boards - has anyone actually contact Avid, directly, about this and asked them? What did Avid tell you?

I read a lot of complaints, but no-one has yet posted they spoke with Avid and their response.

"At a time with increased competition from FCP and the 'new thinking' I would have thought Avid would be concerned at the grievances being aired."

I am sure with the 'new thinking' Avid is concerned at grievances - when valid.

"I still feel that as a business Avid should want every customer to buy each and every one of its products as soon as they are released, they should do every thing in their power to create an environment in which customers feel confident to do so."

Hopefully the customers do buy their products- and I believe Avid would be aware that customers don't just run out to get the latest and greatest unless they need it. I still have 4 tube TVs in my home that work perfectly fine without upgrading to Plasma's or LCDs. When I need to upgrade.. I will. But when I do, will I moan when a month after I make my purchase the company releases an even better model? Maybe to myself, but that grievance is with me.

"Finally, I am a little dissapointed as possibly the originator of this topic that an air of aggressiveness seems to be creeping in which was never my intention."

Public forums... got to love 'em.

 Hi Carl,

Yes I have made avid aware of my concerns and am waiting to hear back from them, not holding my breath though.

Kent (don't you ever sleep?)

Maybe 1 day we will agree on something and i look forward to it.

Just for the record I would happily have bought the upgrade to 2.8 or 3 for $495.00 without any of the addiitional stuff and been very happy with it

let's try this. I bought 2.8 and got what I got in the way of TP software. 3 months later you get better and more TP software. Now, had those versions of software not been available in March and subsequently those TP companies (with wjhom I have not contractual relationship) brought out new and improved software then i would have no argument. Problem is at the time 2.8 was released Squeeze 5, Avid DVD, BCC5 and Avid FX were all available. I thought the TP providers were offering the out of date software as teasers to encourage people ( who otherwise would not have their software) to upgrade to the newer stuff. That clearly was not so as they are now happily giving away all their latest stuff. This leaves me to believe that Avid held back on the newer software, it was available then so how come we were not allowed it?

Just having a debate with you guys, but seriously when looking at the cost of the additional software shipped with 3 not in 2.8 it would be worth buyinng the boxed version of 3. I understand it is liscensing issues that prevent us 2.8 guys simply getting the up to date software. So how about Avid sell me the boxed set at £50 as an existing V3 liscensee? Nice idea and good customer relations.

Any way thanks for sparring with me guys and keep up the good work.

Graham

 "Kent (don't you ever sleep?)"

I only sleep during 0830hrs and 1400hrs - Monday thru Thursday.

"This leaves me to believe that Avid held back on the newer software, it was available then so how come we were not allowed it?"

Take the word "Avid" out of the equation. What should a business do with a surplus of pre-packaged product with a new packaged product on the horizon? Offer a deal for the primary product for that free uprade.

Alsom who knows who made the decision of the TP apps? Some marketing folk, in the bowels had to make some shelf space.. and thought of a great idea. Which, at the end of the day, their goal is to sell the product (not the TP apps)... which they did.