I'm working with 1080i for the first time but the output will be SD, so presumably I can pan and scan using my HD footage with no loss to the SD output.
Any tips on the best way to go about it?
MTIA
I'm sorry to disappoint You: Avid is not resolution indipendent (and that's a major lack); You can capture Your footage in a 1080 project and You'll be stuck at that resolution, only if outputting to SD via Adrenaline with the HD board there's a menu in the digital cut tool with a few options like letterbox or pan and scan; other than that You can capture in an SD project with the VCR doing the downconversion and perhaps You may have options on the VCR side for P&S. In short: there is no way You can capture HD and bring it in an SD project at full res to play with its framing, this can be done in FinalCut and, to be honest, it is a feature that many of us miss and have been asking for; as we're in the new thinking era let's see if someone will finally listen.
peace luca
Thanks.
That's a shame.
I'll have to look into maybe a AE workaround.
AE will certainly do it, but it does seem an oversight on Avid's part not to support this.
Glacier: I'm working with 1080i for the first time but the output will be SD, so presumably I can pan and scan using my HD footage with no loss to the SD output. Any tips on the best way to go about it? MTIA
I've recently been researching this very same issue. As has already been pointed-out, trackable panning and scanning of the full HD raster within an SD project cannot be achieved natively in Avid.
Grass Valley Edius Pro 4 goes halfway toward a solution, via its Layout tool, by allowing access to the full HD raster within an SD project. But reframing is limited to a single frame size for the entire shot - in other words, you cannot pan and/or zoom due to the lack of keyframe control.
An NLE which does allow full, keyframeable, motion tracking of the full HD raster - both in 2D and 3D effect mode - is Sony Vegas; the biggest surprise being that this extremely useful tool is also available in its 'cut-price' consumer counterpart, Sony Movie Studio Platinum.
Avid should be mightily embarrassed by Sony's initiative in the area of HD for SD presentation - especially as the ability to make use of the larger canvas of HD resolutions within an SD editing environment affords significant creative control over framing, without compromising PQ, that was hitherto unavailable to an Editor in post. This lack of vision on the part of Avid clearly illustrative of Avid's inability to see the forest for the tree's (or, more appropriately, the tree's for the forest).
cheers,
Drummond Grieve (aka Blofelds Cat)
www.ohmss-007.com
home of:
Far Up! Far Out! Far More! - James Bond, On Her Majesty's Secret Service
The Bondles - take a trip down Moneypenny Lane to a world in which The Beatles and James Bond collide with moderately humorous result.
Glacier:presumably I can pan and scan using my HD footage with no loss to the SD output.
BLKDOG,
You've been working with Symphony Nitris . .did I see this in the SN demo at NAB, or was I dreaming?
WWLD?
I did a quick search in the feature request forum but found no posts regarding custom canvas size and/or a resolution indipent solution in Avid's NLE, but I remember the issue being discussed in the past. As MC 3.0 is just out maybe this time is the right time for the MC 4.0 whishlist.
The need for resolution independance was not that high in the past. In fact it could be argued that given the need to guarantee broadcast standards, there was a strong argument against it.
With the brave new world of HD (all flavours) and 2K/4K plus whatever else is heading down the track the argument in my opinion has changed. I do anything involving a need for resolution independance in AE, but bouncing media in and out of Avid is a pain. I've even used Premiere (shudder) when I've had to.
So yes, Luca,
luca.mg:maybe this time is the right time for the MC 4.0 whishlist.
and let's put resolution independence right up there. Let's add multi-timebase support, too.
Blofelds Cat:I've recently been researching this very same issue. As has already been pointed-out, trackable panning and scanning of the full HD raster within an SD project cannot be achieved natively in Avid.
Drummond,
Avid does have a product which will do what you ask - Avid DS. There are some limitations, and it is not real time, but I use this feature frequently.
This points out, once again, one of Avids biggest problems. They have an editing product - DS - that is superior to the MC / Symphony line in many, many respects. But it is not in their best interest to strongly market something that would imperil their biggest product.
Check out DS. It will impress you.
Jef
_____________________________________________
Jef Huey
Senior Editor
jef: as a matter of fact DS is not an editing solution: it's a great finishing tool, and if You're faminliar with it You know that everyday editing is not that easy with DS as it is with MC. I also expect to have no limitations on a top of the line product.
There is not only film and/or television: there's a lot of editing work for tapeless/multimedia/web delivery, where custom formats are more than required; it is my understanding that there were once problems dealing with resolution indipendence and the OMF file format/Avid codecs, backward compatibility between Avid releases being an issue too, but I hope that things become more flexible with the new codecs and the MXF file format. In the case of the original poster, for multiscreen projections, or whenever the canvas is not a standard size, one may offline in MC and finish (as pointed out) in AE/DS or whatever, but it's quite difficult to explain to a client that the job can't be output and that requires the extra time/cost of additional postproduction, especially when the competitors offer all in one solutions. Moreover, I'm Avid fluent while I'm not that skilled with other editors/finishing tools and I'd like not to be forced to switch to other environments for a given job, please note that still I'm talking of editing jobs, I'm not asking MC to make tea for two. For the next MC 4 release with full 64 bit support it may be easier to handle different formats and custom canvas, and I wish that the raster menu in MC 3 will develop and the app becomes resolution indipendent: this would be a major improvement.
I'm going to link this thread to a brand new post in the feature request area.
Just a tought:
yes, in FCP you can put Hd material in an SD timeline, but the result is horrible. The Hd material looks worst than the Sd material in the Sd timeline.
This happens because FCP does a bad job when down-scaling clips, due to interlacing and other problems, even after a full render. Lots of FCP users complain about this.
To make the hd clips look good, you need to use third-party plug-ins that do the conversion right.
So, if Avid introduces this feature, and they should, I hope they do it right. Normally, it takes longer with Avid, but they do it better at the end.
Flavio.
Have not tried it, but can you not capture in 1080i, change the project format to 30i and then use the Pan & Scan FX?
DQS
www.mpenyc.com
Hi Luca,
Sorry, but I will disagree with you here. I offline / online spots on it all year round. But then again, most of the spots I am editing have a fairly high amount of effects in them. Offlineing these in MC is painful because of it's weak effects / compositing / title tools. To have to explain to a client "We can't really do that effect here very well - just trust me" when I can do it just fine in DS is not good for business.
Is DS the perfect offline editing tool? Of course not. But for our company being able to explore all the options of a spot with a client without pain is worth some of the small bumps. All our systems our dual boot Symphony / DSs. The editors cringe when they have to work in Symphony. They are spoiled.
About the only thing that I would NOT want to offline on a DS is a multicam show or a long doc.
One problem DS has is that due to price, many offline editors do not get to use it enough to break through what is admititly a steep learning curve. But there are features that have been part of DS for years that are just coming to MC. The demos of v3 have had DS editors laughing for weeks. "Press the space and it starts playing!!" "Easly drag clips and rearrange the timeline!!" But there are many features from MC that are missed in DS. There is NO perfect edit system. It all depends on what you do.
As to your other comments. DS has been ignored by Avid management for a long time. Advanced Codec support has been slow coming. There have been promises that this will change. The DS community continues to wait.
Cheers,
Dom,
That is not really the same. Once the project is changed to 30i, the HD has been scaled down. If I use pan and scan to resize it using a dve to blow up an already dve reduced image (so to speak). A real quality hit.
This is really wierd because in the last 2 weeks I've seen a demo of exactly this - moves on HD clips in an SD project. Of course I have "CRS Syndrome" so I have no idea where I saw it. I've only looked at 40 demos online lately. The guy was talking about doing a push in on an interview at "just the right time." Does this ring a bell with anyone?
Ronn Kilby
San Diego
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