I'm making an independent film, and my DP is using the Panasonic HVX-200 and recording the footage onto the firestore.  He says he shot the project in 24p mode but it still records 60 frames for some reason.  The Avid only recognizes the files when I use them in a 720p/59.94 project.  I just ignored this at first and edited a bulk of the picture under this, but I'm starting to wonder if this is gonna pose a problem for me.  I want it to look as film-like as possible, should I have converted the framerate somehow?  Is the 24p effect going to look the same regardless of how many actual frames there are?   I edited in Avid Xpress Pro but my computer died and I'm waiting for Media Composer 3.0 comes out before I resume (since I bought a Vista computer).  I figure if I have to make any huge changes or even edit the thing from scratch now would be the time.

Hi Tommy, I suggest you search the forums for info about 24P  , 24Pa, pulldown, etc. There's lots of very helpful stuff already written. Remember that video cams run at 30fps (ntsc) and the 24 fps is smoke and mirrors. Also check the 24P forum. You can work in either 24P (or 24Pa) editing or capture into a standard ntsc format depending on what you plan to do with the finished product.

I've tried doing research on the web as well as looking around this forum and I'm so confused and overwhelmed with all the information.  I was hoping someone could give me a simple explanation for my situation.

Panasonic's 24p plays back at 30fps, so treat it like you would treat any other footage like BetaSP or DVCAM.

Actually, I disagree with some of the advice given here. If it was shot 24p, I recommend cutting it 24p. Especially if there is the slightest chance in hell that it'll get shot out to film at some point. Also, if you do any visual effects work, or motion effects, it's far better to do so on the extracted progressive frames, rather than the interlaced footage.

Having said all this, it's unfortunate that your DP chose to use the Firestore, because it records the footage, as you said, in 60i with pulldown and the Avid will not automatically remove those frames from an imported file (which is what you're doing, when you pull the footage off the Firestore). I believe that the new v3 (or 4?) firmware will let the the Firestore capture native framerates (ie, the pulldown has already been removed). If so, and if it's not too late, the DP could shoot the rest of the material in this mode -- keeping in mind, if you have mixed formats (or framerates), you'll HAVE to remove the pulldown on the older footage to cut it with the new in a 23.976 project.

For the rest of it, you can use MXFX from DVFilm to remove the pulldown.

http://www.dvfilm.com/MXFX/index.htm

It's gonna be a monumental PITA, and you'll likely lose your metadata, but it could be worth it.

If there is no chance that you'll do an output to film, or you're doing no (or very minimal VFX), then perhaps you can just cut it in 60i and be done with it. Don't worry about it losing its 'filmic' appearance, because any output you would do from a 24p project would be interlaced with pulldown anyway.

Keep in mind that if you think you will shoot it out to film, it's better to suffer the pain of pulldown removal now than later, because your pulldown cadence will be completely random at each cut and it'll be a nightmare to do later.

Good luck.

Chris

Nevermind, thanks conleec, that clears things up somewhat for me.  So I have to basically convert all my footage and recut the picture from scratch.

I think the process would be to batch-convert all your footage from the Firestore (ie, remove the pulldown) using MXFX. Then import all this converted footage into the Avid in a 23.976 project. I would recommend doing a transcode to an Avid DNxHD codec such as DNxHD 60 for a 720p project type. Then edit away to your heart's content. You'll need a bunch of hard drive storage to accomplish all this transcoding, etc.

Chris

I downloaded the MXFX demo to give it a try and I can't get it to work.  I followed the directions on the website but I keep getting this.

Am I doing something wrong?

 Tommy,

Yeah i had the same problem.  It seemed that Raylight MXFX only worked (at least for me) if i dragged the MXF media in the original CONTENT folder that Firestore created.  Generally when i edit with the firestore (after i organize p2)  - i drag the video and audio files to AVID MEDIAFILES/MXF/1 folder.  I import the footage using medial tool and edit in 1080i/60.  I then tried taking my AVID MEDIAFILES and dragging them through RAYLIGHT MXFX, but had no luck.  When i did experiments and dragged the folder the original CONTENT folder into RAYLIGHT MXFX, it extracted a 23.976 media folders no problem.  It essentially creates a new folder with pulldown removed MXF files.  Make sure you have a target folder,where you want to put your 23.976 footage.  It will appear as a new folder called CARD 1.  Open the CARD 1 folder and there will be a contents folder inside in which there will be a VIDEO and AUDIO folder with the new pulldown removed 23.976 footage that can be dragged into AVID and you will be able to edit on 1080p/23.976.

lemme know if you have  success,

Zack

Thanks Zack, that clears that up.  My only issue is that I don't use the firestore myself.  I give my DP an external harddrive and he puts the files on there for me.  So I don't have this CONTENT folder you speak of.  Is there any way I can go about making one that the MXFX will recognise?  Something tells me simply making a folder called CONTENT won't work.

 You know, i have never tried doing that but you can give it a shot.

Create in windows a Folder that says CONTENT

double clip the CONTENT folder and create separte folders in the CONTENT folder.  Similar to AVID MEDIAFILES that has a subfolder MXF.  In the CONTENT folder create subfolders AUDIO, VIDEO, CLIP, ICON, PROXY and VOICE.  Go to AVID MEDIAFILES and drag your videoclips to the VIDEO folder and your AUDIO media to the AUDIO folder.   Then drag that CONTENT folder into RAYLIGHT MXFX and see if it works.

 I don't know that that will work, but what will probably work, it you get your hands on a firestore.  Shoot one shot with the camera. Organize your p2 - load that folder onto a hard drive.  Open up the CONTENT folder and then follow the above steps (drag audio files in AUDIO folder, video files into VIDEO folder etc.) and drag the CONTENT folder into RAYLIGHT MXFX

give it a shot - lemme know how it goes

Zack

No luck.  I'll have to see if I can arrage to do something with the firestore.

 Tommy,

Hey we talked on the board regarding your problem converting AVID MEDIAFILES from 1080i/59.94 to 1080/23.98p using Raylight MXFX.  Did you have any luck?  I have to do a pulldown removal on an entire feature at the moment, and the original files were on AVID MEDIA FILES

Zack

zacksnygg:

 Tommy,

Hey we talked on the board regarding your problem converting AVID MEDIAFILES from 1080i/59.94 to 1080/23.98p using Raylight MXFX.  Did you have any luck?  I have to do a pulldown removal on an entire feature at the moment, and the original files were on AVID MEDIA FILES

 

Zack

Was that intended to be a PM?  I posted just above you that no, I didn't have any luck.

 Darn,  I will contact DVFILM (Raylight) to see if i can get an answer.

thanx again,

z