Hi there

I've just upgarded from Xpress pro 5.16 to M.C 2.8. I'm working in the UK in PAL and whenever I now export a quicktime ref there is huge juddering on any motion. I've tried exporting as a quicktime movie and as AVI and it's the same problem. I've tried all the settings using file order, native dimensions and avid codecs.

The quicktimes look awful with sawtooth/mice teeth artifacts but when I encode them in squeeze to mpg 1 the they are find it's when I encode to MPEG 2 that you really notice it.

My workflow is export from Avid timeline as quicktime ref. Then open in squeeze add the large DVD preset and encode. The resulting file has really bad juddering on any movement like the field order is wrong. I've tried all the squeeze settings for field order and it's the same. I have added a interlace filter which gets rid of the problem but i'm then losing half the resolution so i get a film effect.

I need to be able to create DVD's with DVD IT and hope to use squeeze to encode it.

My system is now AVID MC 2.8.1, Sorenson Squeeze 4.5.7 and Quicktime 7.3( I have Tried Quicktime 7.1 as well -  same problems) Dual Xeon 3.4, 2gb Ram

My system before upgrade was AVID 5.16, Sorenson Squeeze 4.0 and Quicktime Version 5.26 Dual Xeon and this worked fine creating MPEG2 in Squeeze.

I think it is a problem with quicktime itself. MC 2.8 said it will only work quicktime 7 + So I cannot install quicktime 6. The old version of Xpress 4.0 had the same problem and the only work around was to export from AVID in native dimensions. Unfortunately this doesn't work this time.

Any help greatly recieved.......

 One of the editors at my shop suddenly began having the same problems with MPEG2 out of Squeeze.  In her case she was applying a crop filter to something that was already 720x576 for whatever reason.  Getting rid op cropping in Squeeze immediately fixed the problem, although it doesn't sound like to problem you're having. 

The sawtooth you are seeing when viewing the movie in QuickTime Player might be the interlacing that came out of the Avid.  That is normal.

Just read your post again...cancel on the sawtooth being interlacing.  That would show up as lines.  Anyone else?

Must say I have been getting this problem too - looks particularly awful when the camera pans to track  a moving car.

Have a MC V2.8.1 25i project, DV 25i 1394 capture of a non progressive source and then export as QTR.  When I view the QTR with Quicktime even at this stage I already see an interlace issue looking (which I dont get see in the composer window).  I then use Sorenson to create an MP4 and whether I select interlaced or de-interlace source it looks even more aliased and jagged edged and line jittery by then.

I was kind of putting it down to the computer monitors running at quite a different rate to the original source?  They have far more lines and a different frame rate... Its probably not it though.

My next solution is gaining a permanent 25i 50Hz 'telly out' for £100.  But that is a different thread ;)  Any tips meantime v welcome and I'll keep plugging for a solution to this problem that appears in many threads over the years here.  Maybe I'll just buy a VHS machine and forget these new fangled electroninc PITA formats ;)

D

What does it look like if you re-import the QT file into the Avid?  Just trying to get a handle on whether it is MC or QT that is causing the issue.

Remember, you will always see interlacing artifacts in Quicktime.  The Avid source/record monitors are a different animal and are designed within the software to show interlaced footage properly.  Quicktime isn't.

Kevin Klimek:

What does it look like if you re-import the QT file into the Avid?  Just trying to get a handle on whether it is MC or QT that is causing the issue.

Remember, you will always see interlacing artifacts in Quicktime.  The Avid source/record monitors are a different animal and are designed within the software to show interlaced footage properly.  Quicktime isn't.

 

Interesting Kevin - I always wondered how they handled the different frame rates (noting the annoying horizontal jumps in Full screen mode).

I just 'fast-imported' my jittery QTR back into Avid (must be the same raw 'reference' data of course  as it is only a 197kb file for a 18min prog).  Result?  Same as the original sequence when ganged to the timeline.

I also tried the QTR as a 'native dimensions' export with no difference.  I tried this as technically the 16:9 square pixels setting is suspect - they are natively oblong.  I have to use this setting though or all media players dont format to the correct 16:9 aspect.

Interestingly I opened the QTR export with Real Player to try - same jitter problem as QT/MP4 etc

D

If you can export a small piece of the actual QT (not a reference) that you can post somewhere for me to look at, I'd be happy to take a peek.

 Billy, you said you work in PAL. Do you work in 1:1 or DV25/50? These two formats though being both PAL have the opposite field order. If you switch between formats during the edit or mix them up you will get field order issues. Whilst Avid will play back just fine you are going to have field order issues on export.

It helps to stay in one resolution/format from the beginning and to transcode any other res first to the project format before sticking it on the timeline.

Also some of the Xpress Pro 5.X versions had a known PAL import bug that was fixed in 5.5 me thinks.

As for now I'd try to do a video mixdown and export that. See if that will fix your problem.

Kevin Klimek:

If you can export a small piece of the actual QT (not a reference) that you can post somewhere for me to look at, I'd be happy to take a peek.

 

Hi Kevin - here's a link http://download.yousendit.com/3C44E2177851696F

You can tell from the first still frame that something is up!  This is a 'same as source' QT movie.  I also tried a custom export with 'even field first' selected and no compression -got exact same symptom.  As I mentioned earlier Real Player does the same.

I'm working in PAL and these two are American players...hmmm?

Will try Andy's mixdown suggestion next, but am working only in 25i PAL on this timeline - all captured the old fashioned way via 1394.

D

 Hi AquaPix, I'm only working in PAL DV25 420(OMF), There is no 1:1 footage in the project. The video mix option didn't work either. Both QT movies & QT Refs are really juddery on export but when I encode to MPG 1 or WMA in Squeeze the juddering dissapears. It's only when I encode to MPEG 2 that you really notice it.

Funnily enough if I use another encoder like TMpeng, it also gets rid of the juddering on MPG2, so it must be a problem with Sorenson and Quicktime.

Is your symptom like mine in above link?

Do you get same bad result in MP4 using Sorenson?

Thx

D

 Hi Diesele

Yes i get the same effect as you do but on mine the motion looks a lot worse.....

I haven't tried mp4 but MPEG 2 (DVD Large Preset) looks really bad

Billy I just tried that same DVD Lg preset and it is as awful as everything else - maybe worse!  Preset also defaults to crop/letterbox but seems not to have destryed the 16:9 aspect.  What a game this is!

D

Has anyone had any further insight or luck here.  I havent I'm afaraid and I hate all these dead end threads!

Cheers

D

As Kevin said - in QT intelaced footage always look strange (and I think its the same in most players).

how are you watching the mpeg2? on computer monitor? if so it's the same problem on most players..

the mpeg2 problem could also be that in sorenson I think the presets for PAL is upper field first, you should change that to lower (if your source is dv).

Henrik