Hey all,

I've all but written the check for a couple of high end P2 Cameras - HPX-3000. I was blown away at NAB when I saw Symphony Nitris DX work with the P2 media. As I read through these forums, I see some horror stories about P2, and some glowing comments about XDCAM HD - EX. I don't want to start a shouting match between P2 lovers and XDCAM lovers, but if someone who has used both can tell me what they think, I would be most grateful.

Thanks

 One of the big stumbling blocks with P2 media is that people plug in the P2 card and have instant access to their media for editing which they jump right into, and FORGET to consolidate the media over to an Avid drive before pulling the cards. Then they wonder why the next time they open the project without the P2 cards, all of their media is offline.

Having said that, P2 offers that great instant convenience of "plug in and edit" without time consuming imports first. However, we've been using XDCAM for about 2 years now, and I'm sold on the format, especially with the newer generation of XDCAM import decks that allow you to define a smaller region of a very long clip for import, instead of having to import the entire clip - saves a lot of import time when you have no choice but to work hi-rez all the way because you're racing the clock to make slot.

Larry Rubin:

Having said that, P2 offers that great instant convenience of "plug in and edit" without time consuming imports first.

Larry Rubin:

instant access to their media for editing which they jump right into, and FORGET to consolidate the media over to an Avid drive before pulling the cards.

I also wondered if the original poster is talking about XDCAM or XDCAM EX

AndrewAction:

I also wondered if the original poster is talking about XDCAM or XDCAM EX

Andrew,

I have to admit I'm rather clueless about both. I know one is disk media, and the other is a card. How do they compare in output quality to each other, and to P2?

Thanks

Brickward you say you are buying the top end HPX-3000 camera, Sony do not have an XDCAM camera than can compete so it is pointless to compare workflow.

MC3 will support native AVCintra codec which should help, just do not edit direct off the card.

You could buy the P2 deck and go in via SDI into the Avid if you have enough P2 cards to wait until you get to edit.

 Actually, this is untrue as I am using the Sony PDW 700 XD HD 50 mbit cameras on a job right now, along with PDW HD1500 deck. As we are not V3 yet, we are running HD SDI in, the pictures look stunning and we are editing DNX 120. I have found XDCAM to be great as the imports, especially with the newer decks is much faster and I don't have to worry about camera operators accidentally losing information. So, if you are looking at a high end XD alternative, chek it out. We have been very happy so far...

EX I dont know. All reports seem to indicate it has a very good output for the price. I liked what I saw, in a prestaged well lit pastel environment, but have not worked with it.

XDCAM, XDCAM HD, the new 2/3rd's XDCAM HD and P2 all have various qualities that you can choose to record and output. They each use behind the scenes trickery to intimate at native capture qualities above their technical specs.

So it comes down to how much of who you believe and your own evaluation of the pictures from each. Allowing of course for how any particular cameraperson has changed the camera settings to suit what they think the camera should look like.

Also allow for any camera, without a fixed lens, that the piece of glass on the front probably makes more difference to the recorded image than any of the electronic tuning.

I'm not a huge fan of P2 myself, I've just had some awkward experiences, and my impressions of DVCPRO HD (from Varicam) having worked with it a lot more now are much lower than earlier.

I have, however, been very impressed with XDCAM EX - I had a EX1 on demo from Sony for a few days and found all my preconceptions about it to be pretty much blown away. I would choose it hands down over an HVX200. But the HPX-3000 is a different beast I guess. Nothing in the XDCAM EX range quite matches it (although the EX cameras are hitting above their weight I think).

I've not really used XDCAM HD at all, but was a big fan of XDCAM SD, I felt the discs struck a perfect balance between file-based workflow and tape-like storage and security. The drawback with XDCAM HD, from my understanding, is the codec - it is still a thin-raster (1440x1080) format, rather than the full-raster that EX offers, but I believe this will be changed. It's also Long-GOP, but at higher bitrates and with a more reliable medium (discs rather than tape) that is actually not nearly as much of an issue as it seems. But I believe Sony will be (or is) addressing that and introducing full-raster to the XDCAM HD lineup.

Also worth considering that DVCPRO HD isn't always all it seems either - it also has a thin-raster (1280x1080 or 1440x1080 depending on mode I think) and, at least in Varicam, only acheves the stated 100Mb/s at 60fps, for 30fps it's only 50Mb/s and even less at 25fps.

If someone like Bob Russo from Avid can join in, what are your thoughts on the workflow between P2 and XDCAM HD or EX? I saw the P2 workflow and it was sweet. Is XDCAM similar? Different? Better? Worse?

Thanks

Brickward

If you are spending $60,000 + a good dealer will lend you the kit to try the workflow for yourself.

NICKB:

If you are spending $60,000 + a good dealer will lend you the kit to try the workflow for yourself.

I already had the P2 cameras in my shop - but I don't have MC3. I was hoping Bob could comment, being that he's the evangelist and is working with it . .