Puddy:

One option but not an ideal one is to get hold of Avid Free DV. Some people are still able to get hold of Avid Free DV from places like CNET's download.com. It's no longer available directly from Avid.

That may be the cheapest way for you to get a taste of Avid at home but it's limited and I don't know what the system requirements are. Usually download.com will have a profile about it.

With all due respect to Puddy, I strongly recommend against attempting to install and use a copy of Free DV. Development on it ceased a few years back, the last release was not approved for and did not work well on Mac OS X Tiger, and will not work at all on OS X Leopard. It was officially pronounced an end-of-life product back in September of 2007. More than that, Free DV bears little resemblance to the experience you'd have with Media Composer, and might ultimately leave you with a negative impression.

I would definately check with your local reseller about obtaining a copy of Avid Xpress Pro 5.8 before it stops shipping in June. Then when you're ready upgrade to Media Composer.

Puddy and others.

I actually remember hearing about it...and if I recall possibly looked at it...but it seemed limited in comparison to even premiere pro V1 or final cut hd.

The real excitement was that MC would be offered at 5k which opens it up to so many more possibilities. Though for an individual that was still a lot considering you need a good machine, raid, and a good camera to really be able to have the whole package of tools. This is basically what I've done and have built up all the gear not just editing software.

I've even thought about going to school where they already have a lot of tools and avid. But many are using fcp I think cause like what I've done it's accessable and possibly more so for the student post edu.

So that brings up the question what do all the students who get out of school who bought an academic ver. and can't upgrade. They have to maybe buy another academic one but that won't help them when they actually want to start making $ with the tools.

All that being said I'd still love to take a project and use it as a way to learn avid MC. I think it's a tool to be able to cut on it. Especially if your in LA.

I mentioned I visited a large Post House. I did try to do kinda what you mentioned just gettting the foot in the door around the Editing dept. First ? was do you cut on Avid. Since I don't lie I was like um no(unless you count an avid university session on the floor of NAB lol). Next question was "How about Final Cut Pro". I was like yes(some thinking to myself)...well i passed on the job(professional gofer/coffee go geter')...it was not perminent and could end in a week or three months...I needed even somethin' long term.

I also was waiting to get on set and assist for camera. Ended up getting that call after moving back to the pacific nw cause it was just too expensive in H-Wood...

So that a lil' bout my journey...I appreciate all who share their thoughts.

This seems like a informative community.

My main goal right now is shooting and editing low budget music videos. If anyone in this community has any input how they work with Avid and MV I'm all ears...

Thanks for all your responses!

I suppose that's the official seal to say don't touch Avid Free DV with a barge pole.

Perhaps you should consider following where you heart's desire is. If you want to learn Avid, then that means you should try to purchase it. I spent two years at high school saving up and putting together a very early digital Premiere 5 system. To me it was like building a space ship to go to the moon. The SCSI drives were the biggest killer after the Miro DV300 Card with Premiere bundle. But I got there. Few years later, I was on Avid Xpress. And now I hardly sleep with all the work I get. But I have to use Avid, Adobe Premiere and FCP now. So the work isn't dictated by knowing Avid. Just be open minded and go where the work takes you.

It's hard financially to get by when just starting out, but if you can hold in there just long enough, the doors do open. Just being around you can start to learn so much more and a lot faster than going it alone. You'll see how people work and think creatively together.

In the early days I actually felt quite privilege to serve coffee to some editors who mentored me. And just because it isn't permanent don't pass on it. Try to be the best coffee go getter out there. It will reward you. I've seen a lot of long term coffee go getters end up with permanent work in the field they enjoy.

Good luck with those music videos.

Not to spoil the party here, but the one place that Avid's "professional workflow" breaks down is on P2 and other mxf media. (Don't everyone flame me here but "corrections" are welcome) The truth is, that the thing that makes their media management superior to FCP is the thing that hobbles it when using other media formats. (as evidence, do go watch their tutorial on importing P2 and note the extra steps involved.)

Because the hardware has been optimized to run their in-house formats, it doesn't handle the outside ones as well without a transcode. Also, the same "media unlinking" problems that FCP suffers from starts to appear. (see BLKDOG's post on xdcam). No system can do everything and for my purposes MC is more powerful at the expense of flexibility. As the processors get faster I'm hoping that these issues will disappear and we will be able to play anything out any pipe, real time, at full quality. But for now, that is not the case. That, said, it doesn't sound like, for your use, that that's even a problem. Renders only matter when you have silly deadlines.

I agree with everyone that MC's faster to edit on, and has been developed over years and years in the field. I almost never advise a client to take on a large TV production on FCP due to media management issues. Avid is the way to do TV. That said, getting P2 in and out of FCP is much easier and more elegant. And short format work, in LA, has a lot of FCP users (commercials and trailers).  We are hoping for some changes in the new version. I would love 3.0 to blow me away.

In the end my advice is "Buy Avid", you can always sell the dongle if you hate it and I know a lot more folks who make a living on Media Composer.  ;)

I think 3.0 is gonna rock... and if it doesn't, you will find all of us over at forums.people.who.used.to.work.on.avids.apple.com (jk)

My Post has to do with XDCam. That  limitation does not apply to all P2 media.

I still prefer P2 in Avid over Final Cut. With Avid's workflow I have many more options for backups of my P2 cards and, since I import the media from the drives/cards to my HD, I don't lose media nearly as often as I do with Final Cut.

Yes, there are a couple more steps with the Avid workflow but I believe, it's for the better in the long run.

Both Avid and P2 use OPAtom MXF files; there is no transcode or rewrap required at all, the Avid reads the MXF header information and the MXF files can be thrown into the Avid MediaFiles folder if needed. P2 and Virtual P2 cards are treated as media drives; the files are available immediately and editing can start right away.

For any media to be persistent in an Avid it must be in the Avid MediaFiles folder. So yes, it is a two step process but that’s on purpose. You should look at the first step, Import Clips, as logging the P2 card. Chances are you aren't going to want every clip on the card just like you aren't going to want every frame on a tape. Once the selects are made, and its certainly possible to select all the clips, Import Media will perform a consolidation of the media to the selected media drive. This is a Checksum file copy and is as fast as the files can be copied.

The common mistake that’s made is the P2 or Virtual P2 cards aren't unmounted after use (File>Unmount). If they aren't, as far as the Avid is concerned the media is now in two places and may link  the clips back to the card. The other common mistake is if the P2 card or drive containing the Virtual P2 card is removed without unmounting. Remember, these are valid media drives, and this is like unplugging a drive with media on it while the Media Composer is running. This will also confuse the database and require a rebuild of the database or restart to get everything straighten out.

The P2 clip information can be imported into a bin and transcoded to a SD resolution without consolidating the HD media to a local drive. The finished offline sequence can then be relinked to the original DVCProHD for the online. This works very well and know a number of people that work in this fashion.

In 3.0 the 720p projects are combined with the like frame rate 1080 and SD projects so this workflow is available for that project type. Also the need to select the exact folder has been removed in 3.0 and additionally a folder containing a number of P2 cards can be selected and all the clip information for these cards can be imported at the same time. In 3.0 there is Native support for the AVC-I 50 and 100Mb codec, no transcode is required, it works like any other P2 media. FCP requires a long transcode to ProRes422 that takes up additional space.

For frame rate conversion DVfilm has MXFX.<http://www.dvfilm.com/MXFX/index.htm> It can also rotate clips if a 35mm adapter is used which is a big deal for filmmakers.

FCP must rewrap the P2 Media as a QuickTime file.  This is also a two step process and on the fastest computer Mac takes around 1/2 real-time. If you have an hour of footage, its going to take 1/2 hour before you can start editing.

Avid.com/p2

Amen Brother Bob!

Hallelujah!

Just had some Panasonic guys in the shop demoing the HPX-3000 and HPX-2000. The only way we had to work with this footage as of today, was to import into FCP. Yeech! what a mess! Even the panasonic guy got so confused he wanted to go back and reshoot. I compare this to what I saw Bob do at NAB with Symphony Nitris DX. There is no comparison. The Avid was instantaneous editing, the FCP was a drag. Give me Avid or give me death. Okay, maybe not death . .

Then I guess it's all wrapped up. ;)

If you guys would, drop that instantly available footage out to an HDCAM deck for me at full quality. (!)

That's when we need a transcode... into the Avid codec .

But yes, good to point out that to EDIT, there is no need for a transcode. We are merely changing the wrapper. P2 itself is full of issues and in the end, MC deals with it as well as any system can. (it's not like there are no gotcha's in FCP) The transcode to offline is necessary on any system on any large project anyway.

Also good to hear that things are streamlined in 3.0. The evolution continues. I think I get to see it a bit today out here at our reps offce. I am thrilled to get a major update

I think the theme of this thread is, "Think Different... as long as you're thinkin' about Media Composer".  ;)

Does anyone even use Premiere out there? It is the friggin' Jan Brady of non-linear editors.

The DX hardware doesn't require the P2/DVCPro HD media (or XDCAM HD) to be transcoded for a digital cut. I'm seeing 5 streams of full quality DVCPro HD with the DX hardware and QuadCore Mac or HP.

There is native thin raster support in 3.0 and a big jump in real-time performance across the board.

is avid mc v3 a 32bit app. or 64bit...?

32

Dog, that is the best news I've heard in a while. I am so ready for this new system. (I get to install one first/second week of June)

thx!

Bob states: "P2 and Virtual P2 cards are treated as media drives; the files are available immediately and editing can start right away."

Not on my system, (specs below)  That WAS the case in earlier software iterations on my system, but not now. My mounted  camera cards will not present video immediately available to the timeline.

I'm just sayin'.  Indeed I'm glad you popped by this forum to bring up some very important 'drive' housekeeping rules and the impending P2 capabilities.  Very exciting. Thank you much.

Bill is correct; there's a bug on the Mac in 2.8, FAT32 P2 devices don't work. Virtual P2 cards do work on the Mac.

This should be fixed in 3.0.