I had the opportunity to visit NAB a couple of years ago and sat in on an avid university session and actually got to edit a lil' bit. I was pretty impressed. I've edited mainly on Adobe Premiere and a little on Final Cut Pro.

What I'm wondering is how Avid Composer benefits over the above mentioned nle's. Is it real time even with software or does it require hardware to get the performance out of software alone. What hardware to buy and why?

I currently own a MacPro 2008 with stock video card and 8 GB of ram. How would MC V3 run on this machine? I also have access to a dual Quad Core PC running 8GB of ram and 8600GT 512mb on pci-e 2.0.

So what does $2500 give you? Is it real time performance, better hardware support, better integration, etc. Even now that it has come down considerably in cost what do you get that the other nle's don't offer. Seems they too offer a lot more than they have ever in the past. Maybe this is why the price structures have dropped drastically over the past few years-or maybe MC just does so much more better. Can anyone offer their take?

What can I expect if I just installed the software alone? Would I still need some hardware to do what the big boys use to edit quickly and in RT?

I shoot with the HVX200 P2 camera.

Have MacPro 2008 or Fast 8 Core PC.

Thanks for reading and your time...

Please do a search here. This is discussed often. Most of it is nothing more than personal preference.

Suggested search fields would be Avid vs FCP or Avid and Premier.

Hi,

For me, it's not better hardware or integration or any of that objective stuff that you can point to and say "That's why Media Composer is better."  Media Composer edits the way I think, which makes me very fast, and allows me to easily solve just about any problem a producer can create.  Like BLKDOG says, for me it's just personal preference.

Premiere and FCP both feel more like After Effects, which is a great program, but it feels like a graphic design program to me, not a non-linear editor.  So I don't particularly care for either of them, and I've worked on both, so this isn't just Avid fanboyism.

Hopefully someone else will chime in regarding your specific questions about what kind of performance you'd get out of your computer using P2 footage from your camera.

good luck,
Carl

I use both for different things. I cut drama on avid and make playback dvds (cctv, news bulletins with graphics/straps etc) on FCP/DVDSP.

From a purely time-management standpoint, our Avid's bill close to 1/3 less time per project than our FCP bays do. Speed and efficiency are two areas that Avid excels. Media Management, overall stability and interoperability between our GFX and audio houses are reasons we prefer Avid software too (In addition to what Carl mentioned).

Thanks guys for the response. I'd never been in this forum before and thought it would be the best place to ask but didn't think to search. I guess it's probably a lot like asking which is better pc or mac. Personally I like pc's over mac but again this is just me.

That being said most of you guys are using pc or mac ask the hardware?

It would be interesting to know how the PP or FCP compares to efficiency. Since I don't cut on avid I wouldn't be efficeint nor would I possibly understand (think) like an avid editor. I started using mainly photoshop around the time I first tried to cut something and premiere was available.

It would be interesting to know not how to edit p2 in avid mc but how it compares. Do editors like editing p2 with MC?

Thanks again for the responses all.

I use both Mac and PC (Mostly Mac now though because we run both FCP and Avid) and I won't use FCP for P2 media. Avid's solution is much more stable, you don't ever lose your media like we have in FCP and the play out to final master is a breeze. Also, a lot less rendering in Avid than in Final cut for full resolution play out.

Yes I mainly got the mac(fcp) for two reasons. When I move to Hollywood(though briefly) my peers said well if your going to edit it's either going to be avid or fcp(smaller houses). So I bit the bullet and bought a power pc model. Unfortionately I had some issues and never really got a handle on fcp(studio)...so I ended up go with what I knew and living on top ramin tryin' to come up... =)

I had an opportunity to go to a post house and saw their large room with hard drives and IT. Then I got to see the many bays of avid. They even had one fcp station. As many say they have a purpose and sometimes it was budget. It was less go get on a fcp system for certain projects. From the sound of it an experienced avid editor can fly on it.

I definitely was super impressed when I sat in on the avid university session and got to edit some monster garage footage. The click WB and how easy it was to use keys to cut seemed cool.

I guess since I have the MacPro(well and an 8 core PC both w/8GB of ram)and the MC is less than last I'd checked I wondered how it would run on my system. Is the software somehow more efficient since it's been around so long and specific to just editing not doing everything under the sun... =) Also what can one pick up an old xpress licence and upgrade to MC. This might make it possible for me to afford to buy.

Another thought does MC require a certain sound card(in either mac or pc machine). I own an EMU on pc and a Tascam FW-1884 for playback.

Again thanks for your responses. I did search the forum but as I suspected it was a user basically bashing avid. I'm not interested in that end of it. I've been using Premiere for some time and some with fcp. I'd rather know how users who do like it and why. Sounds like even some have tried the other nle software programs and still find avid faster for them.

Any input on the comparison of P2 in MC would be helpful. I mainly would like to focus on music videos so a lot of audio effects is not necessary. aside

It was too bad avid didn't have the booth at NAB this year(I'm not in the loop so other than an ad on myspace would not have known it had some new offerings). I did attend the supermeet and it mainly discussed fc server, color integration, and RED camera. How are avid editors dealing with color grading and files from RED ONE...?

Thinking like an Avid editor.

One of the biggest problems most folks have migrating from Premiere (or FCP) to Avid is that they try to make Avid work the way they did before. My #1 piece of advice for all new Avid editors is this:

DO NOT FIGHT THE AVID WAY! Have an open mind and start from the very beginning accepting adn learning the Avid workflow. Media Composer is designed for guy who edit for a living, who face impossible deadlines and even more impossible directors or producers. That's why so much emphasis is put on the media management and the workflow. To watch an experienced Avid editor at the helm is a thing of beauty. Keyboard shortcuts and a workspace they have customized for their own most important tasks.

The #2 piece of advice I give is this:

Don't be afraid of Avid, it is not that tough or complicated. Just because it is designed to handle the most high pressure editing environments doesn't mean it's not  for you. It is for everybody who want to edit video as efficiently as possible. If you follow rule #1 above, you will find that you will take to Avid very quickly and it is actually the most logical NLE of them all. Don't try to master all aspects at once. You will be amazed how with each new editing job/ project you pick up another tool or shortcut or feature that you never realized Avid had, but it had it all along. Invest some time in a good Avid training DVD, book or online course and you will find it worth every penny.

As to your specific question about P2 footage, I think you'll find that the 8 core machine does a much better job with it. Especially when we go to the new MC 3.0 next month (hopefully). It will be mutli-processor optimized. Note: If you buy MC today, you get teh 3.0 upgrade as a free download from Avid when it becomes available.

Gary

An updated opinion on this never ending story...

I really do like using Premiere when I'm doing a lot of After Effects work and using Photoshop and Illustrator files for fancy work. That is an example of when an editor might choose to use Premiere.

But Avid (mainly refering to Xpress Pro) is a serious piece of editing software, even without the hardware. The process of arranging clips and trying out different things I find to be highly refined and putting together a good piece of work easily done in less time.

In Premiere CS2 I find the color correction tools and the arrangment of windows and how they work together awkward compared to Avid. And Apple's Color is a very powerful piece of software but by Avid having the color correction tools inside the editing application makes it much easier to do some color correction work as the project develops. I find the way Color has been integrated with FCP limits my ability to "jump in", but otherwise I really do like playing with Color.

Overall, Avid has been well designed and for that there are things I miss about it when on one of the other systems. But then when I'm the Avid I find there are things that I miss about the others.

To me that says there is no ideal NLE and I personally end up choosing between them depending on the project. In the past though I have used Premiere with Avid together for the same project.

As a final note, in my experience Avid is the best at remembering renders and even can manipulate part of a render where not all the clip has been affected by a new edit. That was what really impressed me on my first demo of Xpress DV 2 (or perhaps 3). Way ahead of Premiere at the time.

Tomorrow my opinion and choices will change (perhaps June maybe  ).

HVXGUY,

First off, welcome to Avid Community!

Having read your recent posts, I though I'd share a few links on Community and Avid.com that should help:

For answers about Media Composer compatibility with your MacPro check out the Media Composer system requirements page on Avid.com and the Apple Mac Qualified Workstations PDF.

For answers about migrating from Final Cut Pro to Avid Media Composer check out the popular Avid for Final Cut Pro Users training series on the Expert Connections blog.

For answers about working with Panasonic P2 footage on Avid, check out the P2 Workflows with Avid Editing Systems video quick tours on Avid.com. Or, stay on top of the latest Avid and P2 info by subscribing to the Panasonic P2 RSS feed from Expert Connections.

Best of luck on upcoming projects.

Adam

Adam-

Thanks for all the links and the others here for more details and comparisons.

I really enjoy learning and watching training dvds and so on. Most though like TT and what not don't have training on AVID. So without breaking the bank and going to an expensive school is there other ways to get up to speed and is there a download to try to before you buy...?

-Ryan/hvxguy

HVXGUY:

I really enjoy learning and watching training dvds and so on. Most though like TT and what not don't have training on AVID. So without breaking the bank and going to an expensive school is there other ways to get up to speed and is there a download to try to before you buy...?

 

There is no product download trial, but there are free tutorials and free online e-learning courses when you register on Avid Learning Excellerator (aka ALEX). If you like what you see on ALEX, I highly recommend the Avid Media Composer Composer complete subscription.

Also, if you like DVDs, Class on Demand has a new Complete Training for Avid Media Composer title coming out soon. You can pre-order it on the Class on Demand web site.

HVXGUY:

I really enjoy learning and watching training dvds and so on. Most though like TT and what not don't have training on AVID. So without breaking the bank and going to an expensive school is there other ways to get up to speed and is there a download to try to before you buy...?

 

One option but not an ideal one is to get hold of Avid Free DV. Some people are still able to get hold of Avid Free DV from places like CNET's download.com. It's no longer available directly from Avid.

That may be the cheapest way for you to get a taste of Avid at home but it's limited and I don't know what the system requirements are. Usually download.com will have a profile about it.

Otherwise, if you are serious about editing and Avid then you should try to save up for a copy. But you could always try to get your foot in the door with a post facility as a runner for example and then your keeness and politeness may bring opportunity to you.

A long time ago I saved up and bought myself Avid Xpress DV 3 and spent a few weeks at a post house just sitting behind the editor. Things have taken off from there.

Goodluck with it all.

Careful with that though, Avid Free DV doesn't work on Intel Mac, not even sure it works on 10.4. And it was not exactly behaving like a "proper" Avid...