I have a client who reuses footage like you wouldn't believe.  They use footage for years... forty years or more.  I'm serious.  Now that they're starting to get P2 media delivered on portable FW drives, now what do we do?

A production company will loan the drive to copy the media, then they want it back, so they can repeat the process.

Let's say we get an LTO or DLT to archive the media. 

How do we go about re-capturing that media later? 

How do we catalog the DLT / LTO tapes? 

How do we create a link between our Avid Bins, media, Projects and those archived DLTs? 

Is the media restoration process painless?  Or, at least equivalent to recapturing from a videotape?

I have to doubt it because all P2 media files start with a folder called "1" with a subfolder "Contents."  Seems like a recipe for disaster

So, aren't we going to end up with a boat load of files with the same names?

What if I need to grab one or two shots that are on a DLT?  How do I find them?

And what about the fact that once we capture it and return the hard drive, the only copy of the media is on our Avids? 

They're on RAID 5, but still... kind of scary. 

What if a lightning strike takes out the whole RAID? 

Do we need to back up our entire RAID contents nightly?  The whole 6Tb? 

What do you guys do or suggest?

Jim

Hi '99, long time no hear from!

Wow, lots 'o questions. 

It's a lot easier than you think. The Avid software has an Archive to tape function that makes this pretty easy. We archive all f our raw footage to DLT tape and catalog with a simple database program like Bento. We are looking into a library system that is automated and will catalog and pull tapes for us remotely. Pretty slick.

We only archive the P2 after it has been prepared for the Avid so we are only archiving MXF files. Once the Avid has imported them, they archive and restore fairly easily. One thing I would recommend is to modify the clips to give each P2 card its own tape name. Makes restore and relink much easier.

Keen here to see how good Sony's write data back to XDCAM disks is. Then backup each P2 to an XDCam disk. (Why use P2 in the first place I wonder) 

I import each P2 to its own bin so a printout of the bin becomes my "tape" log

Thanks for the replies, gents.  Good info.

Another question:

If I change the names of P2 media in my Avid bins after importing, can I re-link them to, or batch import from the original P2 media later?

Nope.  No relinking with P2 MXF media.  You can relink to Avid MXF media files by doing "Import P2...Media" or a consolidation of the original P2 MXF into Avid Media.

Forgive my complaining but this is why we just shoot tapes -- RIGHT NOW IN 2008.

The p2 card storage system is such a mess IMHO (note: IMHO is not necessarily your opinion) -- having a zillion hard drives all over the place is hard to feel safe with since you lose a drive and you lose a ton of media. Then to backup all those drives? For example, we shot 140 tapes on our current show. Thats around 70 hours of footage in HD DVCPRO. Isnt it something like 1 GB per minute at 1080/24p->30i? So 70 hours is 4200 minutes which is 4.2 TB. This means we need more like 5 tb to distribute comfortably. A 1 Tb drive is $200 or so for the cheapos. Assuming you want a decent one for $350, you would need, lets say, 5 of them to store this data. Then you need another 5 as a backup. Drive failure is WAY higher than tape failure. Plus if I lose a tape I lose around 30 minutes max. So this is 10 x 1 tb drives at a cost of $3500. And if you lose a drive, you lose 1000 minutes of footage which is like 15 hours of footage.

Our 140 tapes were $13 each. The total was $1600 and they are safely divided in 30 minute chunks. AND we did not need to buy any P2 cards which are getting quite expensive. Of course this is today. I would suspect that in about 3 years, drives will be bigger, cheaper and more dependable. By 2011 or so P2 cards will probably hold nearly 1 TB and it will ULTIMATELY be a better system than tape. So, I know cards are ineveitbale but for now, its not a workflow I feel good about.

I'd say dumping back to tape (DVCPRO 100) is the only safe solution at this stage but is expen$ive...Hence retaining the HD media, But if the final output is SD then again output to DV and store the tapes...

Guywithcat:

So, I know cards are ineveitbale but for now, its not a workflow I feel good about.

Currently its the ultimate con that is predominantly weaved on people who have not been around long enough to see the pitfalls. Hence the first problems is likely to be a huge catastrophe.

In the right situation (singular intended) P2 can be very effective

True Andrew, that's why in a way I envy those who purchased HDV machines...

But the picture quality of P2 Hd rocks...

My shop is going P2 in a big way. It looks like we're buying two HPX-3000 cameras. Currently, I have walls lined with Beta SP and Digibeta Tapes. I have a storage unit full of boxes and boxes of them. When we make the switchover, we will archive to Blu-ray. The quality is primo and the space taken up for archived footage is minimal. It's a no-brainer for me.

Blu-Ray is a no-brainer?  I'm hearing some doom and gloom for it's long-term prospects.*  Since Apple bailed on it, the only low-cost software support for BR DVDs is Adobe Encore.  It's a format that's yet to grab hold of the market, and may be superceded as a ROM storage medium by the next big thing... perhaps holographic TB disks this or next year.

* <http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/news/manufacturers-still-hesitant-towards-bluray/?biz>

I dont know from blu ray. Its an unfamiliar format for me. As of now, I am just avoiding p2 cards. Tape tape tape for us -- videotape that is. DLT scares me as a backup. Reminds me of the 1980s when we used to load games on an apple II via cassette (some of you are too young for this) and then later, on the 5.25 discs which were $5 each in 1983!

Anyway,  sony will likely go to war with P2 soon. See what they come up with. XDCAM does not seem to be able to take on panasonic. So we will see what is next. And by the way, for those who say P2 HD rocks. I would say DVCPRO HD rocks (sometimes)...but I would not say the little P2 camera exactly rocks. Maybe if you light a set its ok but for verite stuff it does not impress me any more than that ugly canon Iwishireallywasashouldercamera HDV thing.

So I dont know what to do. RIght now we shoot tape, digitize to overpriced RAID. Archive to a smaller drive and store my tapes. I must have a few thousand MINI DVs, DVCAMs, DBETAs, BETA SPs, DVDs,  M2 (yuck!) and a few D1s... i think I even have some 1 inch and some 16mm floating around here. Also some DATS, some DA88s, come cassettes and there is some strawberry jam that was in the closet when we moved here 16 years ago.

Guywithcat:

XDCAM does not seem to be able to take on panasonic.

The new 422 XDCAM HD is supposed to have the ability to put a card in a device in the Radio Mic slot. In Sony's words for the rare occassion that recording to a card as well as the XDCAM disk could be usefull.

Yes XDCAM will/does outsell P2 overall... but among professional shooters, I only hear talk of HDCAM and DVCPRO HD as formats they consider. XDCAM is great BUT it is more mid-level in quality. (no hard feelings XDCAM foks!)

If Sony gets a way to store HDCAM video on those XDCAM catridges then I would say P2 might be  toast. But XDCAM is just not being taken seriously as a true, high end, professional HD format. To many folks, XDCAM quality is more like HDV. Also XDCAM uses GOP technology (just like HDV) which, to me, is too weird to understand. And makes my AVID very irritable, DVCPRO HD on the other hand which stores on P2, is more like HDCAM. And of course all of this is IMHO.

;)

 Oh you are in New Zealand? I dont know much about the film community down there... dont mean to step on toes...mea culpa