Blitzer:

However, unnecessarily high pricing can create resentment instead of loyalty. 

You still seem to miss the point.

Avid is a hardware, software solution in a very small market. They are asked to match software prices with a company who give their NLE software away to drive sales to their huge hardware market. (relatively speaking)  They have done so. Now they are asked to match hardware prices with companies who manufacture and supply several thousand generic IO boxes for each one Avid supplies. Really it is a no brainer that boutique cannot and should not match mass production.

In the same way if you only do the occassional paying HD job Avid is not cheap. If you are doing regular paying HD work Avid is far cheaper than any of the competitors in COST OF OWNERSHIP.

 

Blitzer:

Additionally, it keeps people looking over at the grass on the other side of the fence.

Any prudent business person always watches whats over the fence. If they are smart enough to look on both sides of the fence and do the sums on true cost of ownership rather than cost of initial purchase they will make the best decision for them.

Dom & Andrew, I agree with you completely.  I'm not arguing for a $500 BOB, nor do I expect to purchase my next edit system at Walmart.  What Avid has done will probably keep many current Avid users on MC, but it will do little to entice new users or those that have already made the transition and learned the workarounds.

MC 3.0 looks like a big step forward, but not the killer application to make a newcomer shell out 8-12k for an I/O box.  It addresses issues that needed to addressed (and much more eloquently than the competition from what I've read), but it doesn't bring any really new improvements to the table.Having just come from a Meridien system, I'm amazed at how little has changed in 8 years.

Blackdog has been kind enough to intimate that changes are coming, and his reviews of the Nitris DX have been very impressive. However, I'm genuinely concerned that Avid is not reaching out far enough fast enough with its New Thinking. 

FWIW, I was thinking 8-10k for MC and a comprehensive BOB would get serious newcomers looking at Avid - that's hardly AJA pricing.  I guess it's all really very subjective...

 And as has been pointed out before, factor in the cost of HD decks at many thousands more than Avid's software and hardware combined...

Blitzer:

Blackdog has been kind enough to intimate that changes are coming

Yeah, he can be a real "Tease."

Blitzer:

Having just come from a Meridien system, I'm amazed at how little has changed in 8 years

Everybody has their individual "'druthers," but what amazes me is how well MC has stood up over the last 8 years with so very few changes.

Blitzer:

I was thinking 8-10k for MC and a comprehensive BOB would get serious newcomers looking at Avid

I would never speculate, but as it's been pointed out, "New Thinking" is in its infancy. The New DX boxes are, in fact, a product of "Old Thinking" from the "Old" hierarchy. Perhaps the new guys have some ideas similar to yours. as BLKDOG said, "Stay Tuned."

 

 As always, it is worth mentioning that some of us Avid users do not live in LA and do not make big hollywood bucks (though lately the Dollar thankfully shrank).

The point is as stated many times is that Avid does not encourage newcomers. It does not encourage people editing at home and it does not encourage students. Amongst the people it also does not encourage come music video artists, animators and indie filmakers.

So for a beginning editor, the options are: get something else or work as  an editing assistant, effectively not really doing any editing work or any other creative work at all and working at odd hours. It is a valid job, but not everyone can do it, for example, people with kids or even life-partners.

For pros and veterans, Avid remains a strong contender, hardly worth mentiong other NLEs, which I get. Just remember that beginning editors become serious editors with time.

BTW: There are more cracked version of Avid MC out there than FCPs as editors who buys Apple hardware tend to get FCP as well and kids like Windows anyhow.

Blitzer:

However, I'm genuinely concerned that Avid is not reaching out far enough fast enough with its New Thinking. 

To me the true value in Avid is the high percentage of mission critical features available. Many of these genuine features are rarely needed by editors on a day to day basis but they are essential at times and often taken for granted.

I would guess most of these features are totally unimportant to those who place little value on the Avid NLE solution. The day that deadline approaches and one of these obscure features saves the day a little light bulb will hopefully flash vividly for them.

 

amitzinman:

The point is as stated many times is that Avid does not encourage newcomers. It does not encourage people editing at home and it does not encourage students. Amongst the people it also does not encourage come music video artists, animators and indie filmakers.

Rubbish. Avid Free, Avid Pro. Both strong attempts to woo that market. Their current student pricing is very favourable.

As always, it is worth mentioning that some of us Avid users do not live in LA and do not make big hollywood bucks (though lately the Dollar thankfully shrank).

Tell me about it. On the other hand, I seriously suspect some folks around here spend more on their cars than they are willing to spend on their editing solution, and that amazes me.

It does not encourage people editing at home and it does not encourage students.

Have to disagree. Looks like there's a great deal on student pricing now. Any student today can have his or her own simple MC (or FCP or whatever) setup at home now, very much unlike the times when I was learning the art & craft. It has definitely NOT become HARDER to to make flight hours, from my perspective.

 

For those who cannot afford a DX Nitris box can you tell us why you need one?

My business is BetaSP/DVCAM/P2/XDCAM acquisition and file based delivery.  I don't need an HD deck.  But I would like an SD system that is as responsive as my Meridien was, and a way to monitor an HD signal.  I'll end up buying a NitrisDX to meet those needs and because I do see the value.  

I'm mostly playing devil's advocate here.  I think Avid is leaving a big slice of the market on the table without a reasonably priced HD monitoring solution.  I also think that Avid could strike a better balance between boutique and mass production.  I'm of the belief that more MC users would build a bigger and more innovative user community.  

The pricing issue really isn't as black and white as many people would make it out to be.  An argument for more aggressive pricing is not necessarily an argument for "FCP pricing."  Everyone has  a value threshold, I think Avid should try to get a few more newcomers / former users to find MC inside that threshold.

NICKB:

For those who cannot afford a DX Nitris box can you tell us why you need one?

Speed, versatility, stability - I can't afford NOT to get one (actually two.)

Blitzer:

An argument for more aggressive pricing is not necessarily an argument for "FCP pricing."  Everyone has  a value threshold, I think Avid should try to get a few more newcomers / former users to find MC inside that threshold.

 

I agree, and I don't think anybody on this forum is chasing the lowest price as they would not bother posting here as there is little chance of besting the lowest price in the market-place.  I don't even think many are asking for low prices.  The people who bother to post are genuinely interested in Avid and are willing to pay more for more value, just not when a specific component in its own right seems unjustifiably over-priced.

I think it needs to be clear to Avid whether they want to target the lower budget (hence NEW) customers or not - does Avid want to grow its customer base?  Does it want to catch customers who would end up using FCP or Premiere (in addition to sales to "big" users)?  Does it want to catch the customers who look to Avid as having a viable entry point when frustrated with other solutions?  Or does it want to sell exclusively to existing customers and more established editors as it has been?  Pricing, product offerings and marketting messages should then match this intention.

And I totally agree the ideal balance can easily lie somewhere in between.

AndrewAction:

Avid Free, Avid Pro. Both strong attempts to woo that market. Their current student pricing is very favourable.

Avid Free = Not Worth the Time to Install It.

I tried Avid Free several years ago when I was considering Avid as a solution.  If I had made my decision based on Avid Free, I wouldn't have bought Avid.

Avid DV (I've added this, because it also was an attempt to woo the market) = End of Life with nearly no announcement.

Avid Pro = Also EOL, but this time with a big announcement.

I dunno, it doesn't seem like those products really meet the need of newcomers anymore. 

I won't deny that student pricing isn't favorable--it is.  Although, again, compare the perceived value:

Academic version of MC doesn't come with any 3rd Party apps, only an editor.
Academic version of FCS comes with everything.

Students aren't necessarily going to value stability, workflow, and the other features Avid is strong in when they compare the value of the two packages from a features perspective.  Particularly if they haven't worked in a shop that needs to emphasize those things.

My point isn't that MC should be the same price as FCP...it just needs to be targetted very carefully with a clear message about WHY newcomers or students should use the product.

 

 

pedward:

The people who bother to post are genuinely interested in Avid and are willing to pay more for more value, just not when a specific component in its own right seems unjustifiably over-priced.

Perfectly stated.  

 

pedward:

Pricing, product offerings and marketting messages should then match this intention.

So doesn't $2,500 for MC and $7,500 for MojoDX seem a little like $10,000 for the car and $30,000 for the wheels? (you can't buy aftermarket wheels, of course).  You can always sit in the car, listen to the stereo and play with the navigation system - but I prefer driving.

Steeldestroyer:

My point isn't that MC should be the same price as FCP...it just needs to be targetted very carefully with a clear message about WHY newcomers or students should use the product.

 

Agreed.  Bargain hunting aside, I really think Avid needs to speak to a new crowd.  The MC3 and hardware announcements did not even make a ripple in the other NLE forums on Creative Cow or on LAFCPUG.  That would worry me if MC was my product.  You'd at least think some of the Edit* crowd would be talking about Avid at this point.

Students should buy Avid for one reason only and that is to GET A JOB AND MAKE MONEY when they leave.

How much does a Media course at university cost in the US ? More that a Nitris box i suspect!