... and this is worth $2,000 - $3,000? 

C'mon! 

Realistically, MojoDX should be priced between $1,500 and $2,500 (and thats high compared to comparable gear).  That would sell a lot more MojoDXs and actually INCREASE the gross profit Avid makes on MojoDX sales. It would also leave something left over for the necessary analog to SD/HD-SDI converters and audio embedders most people would need, (primarily post-shops do not have the luxury of working in one single format all the time) and the HDMI-to-DVI/Analog  converter for monitoring (if you can find one since Hollywood wrote the law making it illegal in the USA to manufacture, sell or possess such a device.)

Similarly, NitrisDX should be between $4,000 and $5,500 considering the internal CODEC compared to say a MOTU V3HD or AJA I/O etc. Still higher in price than those boxes, but priced so they would fly off the shelves and make a lot of money for Avid.

In fact, at those prices you could see a number of Avid owners picking up some of each box - MojoDX for field work and small production truck/trailer ops, and NitrisDX for the studio.   However, the way Avid has priced these DX "BOBs" encourages those who need I/O flexibility at the ever-shinking content production budgets to switch to both hardware AND software from other vendors.  Remember, a lot of times the purchase decision is not made by the editor who might prefer the Avid interface, but  rather by the management geek with spreadsheet in hand and bottom line  on  the brain.   These guys don't care how hard the editor's job becomes having to switch to FC / Premiere on AJA / Blackmagic / Matrox  hardware - that can't be represented directly in the spreadsheet.  All they see is a way to save thousands for the same general feature set.

Dom Q. Silverio:

wmcole:

2) Mojo DX -

wmcole:

provides some F/X acceleration,

Mojo DX has the thin raster hardware like the Nitris DX.

wmcole:

These guys don't care how hard the editor's job becomes having to switch to FC / Premiere on AJA / Blackmagic / Matrox  hardware - that can't be represented directly in the spreadsheet.  All they see is a way to save thousands for the same general feature set.

While true, it is worth pointing out that the information needed to prove that one solution is better than the other simply isn't always quantifiable. 

Other times, it comes down to the apparent value of the solution.  Is making the editor's job easier worth thousands of dollars more?  What else can those thousands of dollars do for the business? That's a call the "management geek" has to make, particularly given the squeeze of the other expenses the editor may not see.  Ultimately, some people decide it is worth that premium, some don't.

wmcole:

... and this is worth $2,000 - $3,000? 

Value is always relative to your needs and priority. It has been brought up numerous times at the end of the day, your hardware NLE counts very little to your everyday operating cost unless of course you are editing in your basement - then at that point even a simple computer will be expensive to you. The fact is, your rent, scopes, monitors, computers, decks, wiring, storage, furniture, will baloon your operating that will make that $7500 a blip in the radar.

I work with both FCP/AJA/Blackmagic and Avid combo. I know the value. If you ask me AJA Kona 3 vs Nitris DX? Nitris DX. vs Mojo DX?  Tough choice. Mixed media (especially HD) with any FCP hardware is not a pleasurable task. But good enough I guess.

And as brought up numerous times, Avid will not win a race to the bottom and I don't think it is in the editors’ interest also that everyone follow the commoditization of the NLE hardware and software. A race to the bottom will include the editors. This is unlike  the art of writing.  Most professional editors are craftsmen - part artist  part technology expert. 

AJA                     $4000

Avid                     $10000

A happy editor     Priceless

Dom Q. Silverio:

And as brought up numerous times, Avid will not win a race to the bottom and I don't think it is in the editors’ interest also that everyone follow the commoditization of the NLE hardware and software. A race to the bottom will include the editors. This is unlike  the art of writing.  Most professional editors are craftsmen - part artist  part technology expert.

Dom,

Excellent post! Undercutting the competition drasticaly can force prices down, and that can be a good thing. But it is also important to consider the 3rd party software suppliers costs and profits as well. 

GenArts for example - their Avid Plugins are only slightly more expensive than the FCP versions.  but since the price of MC dropped in half over the last year, some people feel that GenArts should drop their prices too.  and the saying "if you cut your prices, you'll sell more and increase your profits"  doesn't always apply.

I was speaking to a software vendor at NAB this year about this kind of mentality as well.  they provide file transfer services for many different Vendors, Apple and Avid included.  he was saying to me that a server for say... $20k and $2k per client connection for this service is right in line for what Avid shops expect to pay.  When FCP shops see the sticker, they are shocked!  \

So what should this vendor do?  placate to the cheaper solution and drop the price for the FCP clients, cause they're used to smaller sticker prices?  should they drop the price of their entire line-up including Avid?  or should they stick to the pricing model that works for them and potentially lose out on FCP install base?

I used to sell vacuums, and it seemed as though the people who bought the chapest POS vacuum on the floor would get p---ed off at having to spend $10 (or 1/5 the cost of the vacuum) on bags.  those were the people who would try to get me to throw them in for free (Fat chance.  i made $1 off of a bag of vac bags, and $0.40 off your stupid vacuum cleaner) the folks who bought the top-of-the-line vacuums never balked at spending the $10 on the bags.  those were also the people who spent extra $ on the service plan.  those were also the people i'd never see again for another vacuum.  the cheap-o's would be back the next week with a broken vacuum cleaner and a sack of useless bags. i could usually sell them on the better vac after having such a bad initial  experiance.

Let's hope Avid can get on with showing the features and benefits and VALUE of the price, and communicating it to the cheap-o's. ; )

And after all is made clear about the value of the Mojo-DX, a way for Avid to get some indication on whether higher volumes from a lower-priced Mojo-DX would or would not result in higher profits despite lower margins would be through a survey... maybe even on some forum, where people choose how many (if any) they would buy if the price where 2500-3000, 3000-4000, 4000-6000 or 6000-75000. Avid knows their Mojo-DX production costs and based on stats from such a questionaire as well as of course general feedback on forums about pricing, they could be in a better position to maximize profits and growth (and ensure customers and potential/future customers are happy enough with the pricing).

Dom Q. Silverio:

wmcole:

... and this is worth $2,000 - $3,000? 

Its value is always relative to your needs and priority. It has been brought up numerous times at the end of the day, your hardware NLE counts very little to your everyday operating cost unless of course you are editing in your basement - then at that point even a simple computer will be expensive to you. The fact is, your rent, scopes, monitors, computers, decks, wiring, storage, furniture, will baloon your operating that will make that $7500 a blip in the radar.

I have work with both FCP/AJA/Blackmagic and Avid combo. So I know the value. So if you ask me AJA Kona 3 vs Nitris DX? Nitris DX. vs Mojo DX?  Tough choice. Mixed media (especially HD) with any FCP hardware is not a pleasurable task. But good enough I guess.

 

And as brought up numerous times, Avid will not win a race to the bottom and I don't think it is in the editors’ interest also that everyone follow the commoditization of the NLE hardware and software. A race to the bottom will include the editors. This is unlike  the art of writing.  Most professional editors are craftsmen - part artist  part technology expert. 

 

 

It's not about the race to the bottom it's a race to be competitive and generate sales rather than make customer look at other more affordable options.  $7500 is not a blip on anyone's radar not least to the target market for MojoDX.  Because some might choose a more affordable option does not preclude them from needing the scopes and monitors as well.  The cost saving between the MojoDX and A.N. Other 3rd party board could and would be used to purchase more equipment for the studio.  Typically, the difference is of the order $5k which buys a lot of RAID, Audio gear or extra software.

The prices of the DX BOBs owe more to the legacy gouging than pricing of a product for today's highly competitive and credit crunched market.  I'd imagine a copy of Automatic Duck, FCP + Kona looks very attractive now to those put off by the MojoDX pricing particularly to those already using MC software only on a Mac.

VGUK2:

The prices of the DX BOBs owe more to the legacy gouging than pricing of a product for today's highly competitive and credit crunched market.

Before Mojo was even dreamed of a component to FW IO for Avid DV was $5K US  (Laird 5500) Having brought one I have never had any use for a Mojo nor will I into the future.

Why?  IF Nitris DX lives up to its early hype the time saving alone in rendering on the first HD job here pays the difference between Mojo and Nitris. The time savings on the second job pays the difference between MojoDX and any FCP solution.

Then add the value of a peace of mind achieved with a professional hardware software solution and the most logical business decision is buy Nitris. Would not stay in business long here if purchasing decisions were based solely on initial purchase price.

The question is whether one gets such time savings with the Mojo DX.  Older FW IOs being 5K again seems to relate with legacy pricing but would not justify lack of competitiveness in current pricing.  The question still remains whether Mojo DX is competitively priced.  For some (with bigger budgets and more or better paid work) its price may be irrelevant, for others (e.g. start-ups) its price may be an issue.  And if a start-up takes a different (non-Avid) route, it may be harder for Avid to woe them back at a later date as there will be costs and risk involved in switching.  Granted there may be a quality difference and efficiency difference with other solutions, but people's start-up capitals simply differ and for some the more expensive/more efficient solutions are simply not an option to begin with - especially when there are other non NLE related costs to think about such as cameras, lights etc..  One could argue that this demography should look at non Avid MCP solutions, but I'm not sure that would really be in Avid's long term interest.  If this demography would really not be relevant (or large) enough for Avid's earning potential or long term strategy, then that would be fair enough I guess but I get the feeling that they do matter and in fact could be a great opportunity for Avid at this moment.

For me, I can say that the Mojo DX is off my radar. Personally, it is an ill conceived product both in design and placement. So, I've pretty much written it off.

However, the Nitris DX is the absolute bomb. The perfect compliment to what is now the most solid software in our business. Anyone who sits behind an Avid system after June and does not acknowledge the absolute  superiority of the Avid editor for the business of post production then I would have to question their motives for not  doing so. This thing is the most solid NLE I've used in 10 years. Not to say it doesn't have a long way to go to update its feature set and effects handling but, for sheer stability in cutting HD material very, very quickly, it rocks. For the past three months I've cranked out dozens of shows faster and with less "Workarounds" than I have in 6 years. The productivity jump  that the new Avids will give to my business will more  than pay for the higher price tag.

I know that, as people start sitting behind these systems, the word will spread about how great an experience this software is now but I hope that Avid marketing can find a way to get this word out there faster and better than they have in the past.

BLKDOG:

 

 Anyone who sits behind an Avid system after June and does not acknowledge the absolute  superiority of the Avid editor for the business of post production then I would have to question their motives for not  doing so. I know that, as people start sitting behind these systems, the word will spread about how great an experience this software is now but I hope that Avid marketing can find a way to get this word out there faster and better than they have in the past.

I agree with Todd that the new software is getting better and better.  However this is just a step in the process.  FCP and the like are not stationary targets and will get better as well.  Plus there is no one software/hardware that can fit all business models, so many will not agree with part of the above statement.  We can thank Avid for getting us some good stuff, but we need to keep pushing them to keep going.  Don't stop.

IMHO -

sw

switthaus:

there is no one software/hardware that can fit all business models, so many will not agree with part of the above statement. 

Don't read my statement too narrowly. I'm not saying that this is the best software for any business. I am saying it is a superior editing system. However, maybe not for folks whose business model does not support the premium price.

Ferrari is a superior car to my Mustang but it doesn't fit my needs. In many ways the Red is a superior camera to what we are using but it doesn't fit our business model. Doesn't mean I don't recognize the gap in performance.

All I'm saying is, after many years, Avid has finally gotten on the right road here.

can't avid just come out with a simple I-O box?

I don't mind the render time.

they should of stopped the mojo boxes and continue with the adrrenaline

at 5-8k.

Mike

All I'm gonna say is ...stay tuned.

BLKDOG:

All I'm gonna say is ...stay tuned.

Yer killin' me!