What an unhappy thread!  A lot of confusing information though.  So heres the deal:

The Mojo DX and Niris DX offer NO hardware acceleration, none at all, nothing.  They are simply i/o devices.  The Nitris DX does have DNxHD coding/decoding, every other bit of processing is through software via the CPU.  A very FCP approach?  Don't forget, the Adrenaline doesn't really accelerate anything either.  Now, what version 3 software will offer is better use of those CPUs than ever before.  In a way this is good as the capabilities of modern CPUs make what we had just a couple of years ago look like cheap toys.  The down side is that it would only make sense to run version 3 on the newest of computers.   So then the question of what is the actual value of that high priced hardware?  Compared to what the FCP folks have access to, I would say about $2500 dollars for the Nitris DX and $900 for the Mojo DX.  So I will side with the "it cost too much" people on this one.  Everything the DX version of Media Composer or Symphony offer over FCP is entirely in the software.  The software costs about twice as much.  I'm fine with that, it should cost even more as far as I'm concerned.  The hardware however is nothing special.  The cost is completely unjustified.

The upside of this?  next year's even faster computers should proportionally relate to more capable Avid systems. Should.

On the cost of the Nitris 'classic' vs. Nitris DX:  the old Nitris offers real hardware acceleration. a lot of it.  Two streams of uncompressed 10 bit HD with color correction on each through a transition, at least.  Something Final Cut couldn't dream of (nor the Adrenaline).  All that specialized, low volume hardware costs, a lot.  I may have been sad to pay it but I was glad to have the power once I started using it.  And don't forget, the Symphony Nitris came out in, what, Q4 2005, at a price of around $160K? What did a 2002 Symphony Meridien cost?  Around $160K.  I would say the Sympohny Nitris offered a pretty revolutionary price point at it's introduction.  Would you rather drop a half to a full million for a Quantel product?  Oh, Oh who wants an eQ with a built in cripple of only 40 minutes of HD storage?  (I realize I'm talking in 2005 terms).

On the capabilities of the new Nitris vs. the old Nitris:  It's not as good!  not in some cases at least (such as the previously mentioned 2 streams of 10 bit HD).  So for all you current Nitris owners, know that your expensive hardware is still GOOD expensive hardware.  however, I am looking forward to Symphony Nitris DX, on OS X!  lets get rid of that painful 2.5 Gig RAM barrier and fragmented files once and for all, I hope.

On support (assurance, whatever):  I HATE Avid support.  I honestly believe it would have been more productive and profitable to flush a hundred dollar bill down the toilet and hold a disconnected phone up to my ear for half an hour for each call I made to support over dealing with the ineptitude, unresponsiveness and combatative engagements I had the pleasure of paying tens of thousands of dollars for.  For the cost of one year of full coverage on my DS or Symphony I can completely throw away and replace a Final Cut system, twice.  This system must change, both in terms of getting updates and getting actual answers to problems.  Avid must also engage in greater transparency in terms of relaying info on known problems.

Moving forward, the version 3 software will bring tremendous CPU based improvements to current hardware owners and offer a lower cost in for new systems.  What remains to be seen is if the rock solid dependability of hardware acceleration can be met with a software based solution.  Am I happy with the new pricing structure?  Most certainly not.  Did I give Avid hell for there 'new thinking'? Most definitely.  Will I continue to run an Avid heavy facility?  Most likely ;)

Niris DX offer NO hardware acceleration, none at all, nothing

It has a hardware codec.

The Nitris DX does have DNxHD coding/decoding,

Which is a form of acceleration.

every other bit of processing is through software via the CPU

You are forgetting the GPU, which has been in use in the DNA line as well.

the Symphony Nitris came out in, what, Q4 2005, at a price of around $160K?

Half of that. 89K US$, IIRC.

Dino:

The Mojo DX and Niris DX offer NO hardware acceleration, none at all, nothing.  They are simply i/o devices.

Hi Dino,

That's not what the Avid guys at NAB said. According to them, the Mojo DX does not offer acceleration, but the Nitris DX does.

Dino:

I HATE Avid support.  I honestly believe it would have been more productive and profitable to flush a hundred dollar bill down the toilet

I feel your pain, although I would say MANY hundred dollar bills down the toilet.

Dino:

Will I continue to run an Avid heavy facility?  Most likely ;)

For me, it's most definitely!

I'm still optimistic that "new thinking" will produce some good things. Got my fingers crossed.

Job ter Burg:

Niris DX offer NO hardware acceleration, none at all, nothing

It has a hardware codec.

The Nitris DX does have DNxHD coding/decoding,

Which is a form of acceleration.

every other bit of processing is through software via the CPU

You are forgetting the GPU, which has been in use in the DNA line as well.

the Symphony Nitris came out in, what, Q4 2005, at a price of around $160K?

Half of that. 89K US$, IIRC.

So "acceleration" of one of the perhaps dozen codecs that may end up in a timeline is not a well realized solution.  This also is a nod that can be given to much of the significantly lower cost Final Cut hardware.  There is still no dedicated hardware for color correction or DVE as in the classic Nitris or Meridien hardware.  

Point given on the GPU.  I perhaps oversimplified and was simply refering to the entire computer as the CPU.  The fact still stands that whether the CPU/GPU is considered hardware or software, it is separate from the core Avid product and is not part of the price structure that is in contention here.  Again the same argument can be applied to the lower cost Final Cut.

Thank you for the correction of the Symphony Nitris price.  I believe you are correct.  And this lower figure only serves to strengthen my point.  I may have paid $110K by maxing out the storage to 10TB.  The 160 figure may be what we had paid for the previously acquired DS.  

Finally, the point still stands that the new Avid pricing structure does not appear to follow any reasonable logic and, I will add, seems to punish to a disproportionate extent, those who wish to spend more to get more.

Peace.

Dino:

Finally, the point still stands that the new Avid pricing structure does not appear to follow any reasonable logic and, I will add, seems to punish to a disproportionate extent, those who wish to spend more to get more.

That's nothing new.  Remember when Media Composer software debuted? They tried to gouge Adrenaline owners for the exact same software upgrade they were offering to Xpro users. We still don't know what the 3.0 software upgrade is going to cost Adrenaline users.

Dino:

I HATE Avid support.  I honestly believe it would have been more productive and profitable to flush a hundred dollar bill down the toilet

Brickwad:  I feel your pain, although I would say MANY hundred dollar bills down the toilet.

I'm not doubting your experiences, but they may be isolated cases.  We have had 24x7 Avid Support on our Unity and DS Nitris since they were both new (9 years on Unity, 4 years on DS).  Both have been life-savers.  I can cite many instances where Avid support went beyond my expectations to resolve an issue.

In response to Brickwad on the upgrade pricing structure:  I remember the situation that you are talking about.  While it didn't affect me directly, it did keep me from purchasing the subsequent upgrade of which I am fine with considering Avid has yet to resolve the Bus Thread Error issue.  I do believe the upgrade pricing to version 3 is a lot kinder than our previous experiences though I wont mention specifics as I don't know if I have all the information correct and wouldn't want to engage in speculation.

In response to Randall regarding Assurance:  My experience across seven plus years of maintaining a facility has been as follows.  

On three different Symphony Meridien systems I have had either the Ultimatte or color correct board fail within the obligatory 1 year of coverage.  After that, no problems for years.  this points to a manufacturing flaw and should be resolved by Avid rather than on my dime.  I did use Assurance to great success on the fourth system when after weeks of back and forth and 3 days of on-site with my reseller's support staff ended in outright lies and no resolution, I fixed it myself in half an hour after a 10 minute phone call with Avid.  

On four different Media Composer Meridien systems I lost one Meridien power supply not under coverage.  I fixed it myself.  I did have problems with DVD drives on 3 of the computers.  These failed quickly so it was under my obligatory coverage and pointed clearly to a manufacturing flaw.  My resellers response was that I should send them off to a 3rd party Apple repair shop to get the drives replaced under Apple's warrantee.  that is, take each system down for two or three days to get a non-essential $50 part replaced.  That is unacceptable in a professional working environment.  I offered to perform all the labor myself, they just needed to get me the drives.  No dice.  I realize these are not Avid computers though they were sold to me as a part of an irreducible Avid package.

on a DS Nitris, Symphony Nitris and a Lanshare EX: no hardware failures at all.  I did get to experience days, if not weeks of down time with both systems on issues that were basically bad code or bad implementation.  It wasn't weeks spent with Avid doing serious troubleshooting but rather weeks futzing around before they finally admitted that either something just doesn't work or doesn't work to the extent that it should.  Nothing says love like having your means of making a living serve a a test bed for someone else's poorly tested product.

All other problems were either bad code, under-trained support personnel or bad operators.  With bad code, no amount of phone time will fix it.  Dealing with under-trained support personnel (whether on the phone or on-site)is a double waste of time as not only do I wait to wait for them to muck through it and ultimately fail (and possible get antagonistic while failing), I then have to take the time to solve the problem myself.  With bad operators I just smack them across the back of the head and say' "no, bad operator".  None of these scenarios requires a multi thousand dollar support contract.

Go ahead and charge me for an upgrade that actually upgrades something.  But don't ask me to pay for the opportunity to be an on the job training site or for the hope that someday the software might actually work the way it is supposed to.  I'm getting a little worked up here, sorry about that.  And there might be more.

Peace.

It would be great if avid would believe in the product 

they're selling and offer like every other company

3 year warranty.

I had to trade in my mojo twice in 2 years .

thanks

Mike

Before NAB we were all in agreement that avid must target the youth, 

new generation of editors. I think they fell short.

thanks

Mike

I'm sorry but I have to strongly disagree with that statement. Offering the best damn editor on the planet for $249 is missing the mark? 

I don't think so.

So much for the new direction for Avid.  We listened but we decided to carry on with our blind path up a cul de sac.

The problems continue; the initial cost of ownership, strange upgrade pricing and quite ridiculous pricing for the DX hardware and continued poor marketing.  There is little or no difference between the Nitris DX and Mojo DX descriptions on the respective product pages!  

Makes wonder if there isn't actually too much difference at all.  I suspect the software is actually limited and the full processing power of the host PC is unlocked only when you connect up the Nitris.  I would like Avid to be clear about what the hardware actually does and doesn't do in terms of "accelerating" the processing.

This new product line just signals to me that Avid have given up on the biggest market the one which FCP is killing them in.  They have retreated in hope that they can carve out a niche in the sort of grey mid ground.  An incredibly precarious position that is doomed to threats from improving off the shelf hardware and from the high-end (Smoke,FFI) being forced to drop their prices further.

I have it on good authority, actually two companies, that FC Server is the real deal.  So there's no let up even in the collaborative field.

Again, these products have nothing to do with the new company. THey were in place two years ago. The new programs from the new execs have yet to be put in place.

Everyone agrees that a new direction and new positioning needs to happen and it will.

What would you like to know about the new hardware capabilities? 

1. Mojo DX...I/O only with no Composite capabilities. Ridiculously poor positioning and price.

2. Nitris DX...Hardware accelerated DNxHD encoding/Decoding. Makes multiple streams of HD a breeze. Very good hardware.. Maybe a Tad over priced but not too bad.

What else would you like to know?

BLKDOG

IF you disconnected the Nitris box would you feel / see the difference in performance in editing

Do you get faster render performance?

I can understand better 'playout' capability but in a file based world that benefit maybe somewhat lost.

Everyone knows what an in/out box is Avid need to communicate what extra benefits you get for paying the Avid premium. 

Let's see if I can help here.

1. Yes, without the Nitris attached, playback is noticeably affected. Not as many streams. Rendering? That's still handled by the CPU so, the faster the cpu, the better. Even in a file based world, the performance is noticeably better with the nitris attached. Infinitely quicker and more stable than the DNA boxes. Biggest reason for me to buy the thing is HD-SDI in and out at higher data rates than before without Adrenaline's instability issues.

2. The Mojo does nothing to help anything.

Ah, I see.

So the Nitris DX is no more than the FCP equivalent of AJA's IOHD.  Thanks.  A "tad over priced" doesn't begin to describe it.

You say that these products are nothing to do with the new company.  Well, the trouble is on the Avid main page they are proudly displaying in the Flash ad that these products are indeed the result of the new thinking.

So you seem to be at odds with this message then BLKDOG or is it just Avid spin?