It makes me think you have too much time on your hands. :-)

wmcole:

1.25*2,000+995= $3495 for software that a new user can get for $2495. 

Bill,

That was the policy under the old regime. Give the new folks a chance, will ya? They just took over. Yes, the old policy was an absolute farce. I totally agree with you that it was an insult to our collective intelligence. Let's see what they do and reserve judgement until then. I haven't paid for support for years, because it was just plain ridiculous. I might consider it if they give me some kind of value for my money. We can't say until we know, right? I really am with you on this brother, and if they continue along the same vein, I'll be bit**in' about it too.

Power to the people!

BLKDOG:

However, Major upgrade to MC = $995. Major upgrade to FCS = $1299.

Wrong.  FCS Upgrades = $500 (for example, FCS1 to FCS2)

BLKDOG:

So, even if you choose to use the free support here, your upgrade to Avid  software is STILL cheaper than the competition.

Believe me, there is much, MUCH more free support out there (message boards, websites) for Final Cut then there is Avid.

Hi SandmanX82,

Are you a Final Cut reseller or something?  The vast majority of your posts are in threads like this one (e.g. "The Future of Avid" type threads), where you extoll the many virtues of FCP and what a great job Apple is doing of keeping ahead of the NLE market.

Please don't get me wrong; I'm happy that we're having this discussion because I think it helps Avid see what they're doing wrong, but the number of times you've argued on behalf of FCP in terms of pricing, development, interface, and corporate management makes me wonder why you're still editing on Avid at all.

good luck,
Carl

Intereresting thread, esp as a newbie here.

I've specified a few Avid systems for places I've worked.  Most recently I researched a 3 suite shared storage system for a company.  Owner was a massive Mac fan and there was a nice cost saving over anything Avid offered using an FCP XSan system;  we went for Adrenaline and Unity (LANShare).  It was an absolute no-brainer for a professional TV production Co.  If I had a costly Mac IT engineer employee on-site 24-7, them I still wouldnt have swung to Apple and its's assorted selection of separate box and software builders.

Someone said "Sometimes I wish Avid would provide just a box of software.  That way they can concentrate on making Avid better, and people like AJA, who sell much more and therefore can still profit while keeping prices in line, can provide hardware solutions."  That FILLS me with horror and is the last thing on earth a professional outfit needs.  Has no one ever had the type of premium rate phone call where Acer blame MS who blame Adobe who blame your GFX card who blame MS who blame you for buying a non approved system and TOUGH!!!!

I think Avid have just played a blinder in offering MC for a competitive price (and I delight in having it for my toys at home for the odd corporate job). They have cut out the bedroom price point and differentiated themselves from FCP with a professional product.  If they can communicate this a bit better then that would help as there is such a mish mash of (individually valid) perspectives here. They make the choice between FCP and Avid EASIER (although it may not ultimately be to their benefit???)

Maybe I sum it up with what I have specified recently:

Work: 3 adrenalines, LAN share, Avid 100% approved and built hardware, annual Avid support contracts, totally standard, No staff IT support on site, local reseller 5 mins away. 

Bedroom: Xpress Pro (now MC:) ) 100% homebuilt totally non compatible AMD system (works fine), bit of overclocking, no Avid support, local IT support = forum trawling by owner!

Horses for courses is of course my point on this price point, err point!!!

D

NICKB:

If an Avid Nitris  is $12000  spread over 3 years that is $4000 per year or $333 a month $83 a week or around $2 per hour based on a 40hr working week, so working at 50% capacity the Nitris box costs less than $5 per hour 

In the UK we pay $10 for a gallon of Gas which makes me think i need a Nitris powered car :-)

'Cole -

This is actually a very good point.  If you are buying multiple systems and support, putting them on a loan or lease and paying out over time (24 months is more logical seeing the way things change) is not only good for cash flow but offers some bottom line corporate tax benefits.   Your accountant will like this.

SandmanX82:

Believe me, there is much, MUCH more free support out there (message boards, websites) for Final Cut then there is Avid.

Name one Free source that  gives you access to company personel the way these boards do.

SandmanX82:

Wrong.  FCS Upgrades = $500 (for example, FCS1 to FCS2)

Sorry, you're right about that. Most of my time upgrading from FCP 1.0 though, there were no upgrades. You bought new software. However, $500 for FCS and another $500 for A much more capable, stable and cost effective post solution is still a better deal for us. I go back to the cost of using the software. That extra $500 is a pittance compared to the time and resources savings with an Avid solution. I save that in one day using an Avid bay. Think about it (using todays support prices) for an extra $1500 a year you get much better software AND free upgrades AND 24/7 support. Any business that doesn't see the value in that isn't looking very hard.

BLKDOG:

for an extra $1500 a year you get much better software AND free upgrades AND 24/7 support. Any business that doesn't see the value in that isn't looking very hard.

Hi BKLDOG,

To be honest, I don't see enough value in it.  I priced out a Mac Pro system with monitors for about 12K. For an extra $250, you get THREE years of phone support, and if during those three years the thing craps out, they fix it. That's what I call a support contract with value. If Avid did that - along with the software upgrades - I woud gladly pay $1500 fror the 3 years. I'm hoping the new management team comes up with a support contract that's more in line with this type of thing.

Peace,

 Carl

My sincere apologies that my post of opinions or concentration of post is on areas of my frustration of Avid's business over the last couple of years concerns you.  While I haven't done a content analysis of how many times I've "argued on behalf of FCP in terms of pricing, development, interface, and corporate management," my concern in this area is due to the fact that I'm a fully "integrated" user.  I'm a shareholder, an Avid and Deko user and I own and support Avid equipment in my home, workplace, and consulting jobs.  I've been using Avid since 1996 and continue to use it.  Avid has been more than just a tool for me over the last decade.  However, the last couple of years has turned my feelings toward frustration, concern, and a personal workflow that only looks at my Avid as a tool, not the creative solution it once was for me.  Moreover, I'm a advocate for another point of view and if you read my posts in other forums about FCP you would see similar concerns in terms of product stability, workflow, etc.

This I know for sure, I have NEVER stated that one software was or is better than the other nor have I stated that one company is better than the other.   

Since you felt you needed to single my comments out, I will be glad to create a new profile for these types of posts and concentrate on other forums.  My sincere apologies for any offense.

PS:  For the record I am not a reseller of any product(s) from any companies.

DShulkin:

Since you felt you needed to single my comments out

Sorry, David, I think this was my fault.  I was addressing my comments to the post directly above mine from the other David/SandmanX82.  I should have been more clear about that, and I'll edit the post to make it clear.

good luck,
Carl

camoscato:

Hi SandmanX82,

Are you a Final Cut reseller or something?  The vast majority of your posts are in threads like this one (e.g. "The Future of Avid" type threads), where you extoll the many virtues of FCP and what a great job Apple is doing of keeping ahead of the NLE market.

Please don't get me wrong; I'm happy that we're having this discussion because I think it helps Avid see what they're doing wrong, but the number of times you've argued on behalf of FCP in terms of pricing, development, interface, and corporate management makes me wonder why you're still editing on Avid at all.

good luck,
Carl

Nope, no Final Cut reseller here.  I've worked with Avid exclusively for 6 years.  I can count on one hand the number of times I've used Final Cut pro in that time.  I actually use Premiere at home for little side projects and things like that.

I, however, am not going to blind myself to the strides it's making.  I always notice Avid people say that Final Cut users are ignorant to what Avid is and can do, and therefore there's a lot of misinformation going on around there.  After any amount of time here, I can say the reverse is true as well.  I see a lot of people saying things like "once I had to use FCP and it put my project behind by 5 days" and so on and so forth.  I can guarantee it's for the same reason that FCP users hate and think Avid is too slow...users are not familiar enough with the program.  I may not use Final Cut pro often, or even as often as some people here, but I've seen companies use it and use it successfully.  Usually I get the response "yea it works, until you have a client sitting over you...".  Which again, is not true.  It's being used in all situations, including major films, broadcasting, smaller companies, larger companies.  Just because there aren't as many larger facilities using it, doesn't mean it's not capable, because people are proving that all the time.  These companies wouldn't be in business if final cut failed as much as everyone here seems to make it out to.

I do the exact same thing on forums or in discussions with other people who point out misinformation about Avid.  I'm there to gladly make a point the other way.  So it's not that I'm here just to talk up final cut.  Most people here already know what Avid is about, so there's not really a lot to say that people dont already know or that people get wrong with regards to that.  I'm not a mac fanboy by any means (I've never owned a mac, except for the one my wife has), but in debates about windows/mac, I'll be the first to speak up when windows lover say things that aren't necessarily true about macs, and vice versa.

So I guess in conclusion (man, my posts always end up way too long ), I don't feel the need to praise Avid as much because everyone here already knows what they love about it, but there are definitely things I'd like to see change that differ from the next person here.  If I used Final Cut and were discussing in one of their forums, I'd be right there saying, "man, I wish final cut stole this feature from Avid".

Hey guys,

In my opinion threads like this one are very important. I don't see it as one of those "what's better, Avid or FCP?" type arguements that can get very infantile. Rather, this is a discussion amongst a group of people who are very passionate about what they do, and most importantly, is monitored by the people who can actually act as advocates for the opinions expressed here. BLKDOG is 100% correct when he says that kind of communication with company personnel is unique to these forums. I think that agreements and disagreements are very healthy, and absolutely essential. I don't believe "new thinking" would ever have come about without the passion expressed right here. I don't know if Dshulkin and SandmanX82 are one and the same person, but I don't think either should apologize for expressing their opinions. Discussion brings about change, and that's a good thing - as long as we keep it civil.

Peace

SandmanX82:

Most people here already know what Avid is about, so there's not really a lot to say that people dont already know or that people get wrong with regards to that.

Hi,

Fair enough.  Thanks for taking the time to respond fully; long post or not. 

good luck,
Carl

camoscato:

SandmanX82:

Most people here already know what Avid is about, so there's not really a lot to say that people dont already know or that people get wrong with regards to that.

Hi,

Fair enough.  Thanks for taking the time to respond fully; long post or not. 

good luck,
Carl

You're right though, I do seem to get off on final cut tangents, and I think even in my short time here, I've made it clear to anybody that reads my posts what I think Avid needs to change to compete better  So I'll try to stop rehashing the same thing and try to contribute to discussions in other ways (except for the way Avid handles effects...I'll NEVER get tired of complaining about that!).