Would someone mind checking a workflow for me?

1080i deliverable master.

1. Aquisition with Sony HDW f900 (1080 23.97p)-is 23.97p possible on HDcam?

2. ingest from Sony HDcam SR deck at SD offline res to MCA in 23.97 NTSC project 16:9

3. edit

4. get approval-lock picture

5. Switch format to 23.97p 1080 project

6. batch capture approved cuts  at highest DNX HD res.

7. output .tif sequence of approved pics for digital color correct in Lustre

8. CC pic out to 1080i master tape

I'd really appreciate if someone could critique any holes in this plan.

Thanks very much.

Looks OK.

Yes, 23.98p (23.976) should be available, though not on all HDCAMcorders. I'm pretty sure the F900 will do it.

Why not offline in DNxHD36?

Why use the SR deck to capture from? You could get by with a non-SR deck if you are shooting regular HDCAM.

Are you sure you want to create an 1080i master? I'd always try and master in 1080p, and then you might want to make a 1080i dub from it if you really have to, I guess. The 1080p master will give you more options for international deliveries and filmouts.

Thanks for the reply.

Will do the offline DNxHD36 (My workflow has remained the same for so long, I just default

to SD for offline as all my previous HD jobs go out of house for finish). 

Firewire (g tech) should be fine for DNxHD36, right?

SR deck is the one available at my colleague's shop and he's letting me ingest there-thus SR.

1080i is deliverable spec for this broadcast project.  No filmouts, but I'll check on international.

Really appreciate you looking this over.

Now after I make through this one I need to figure out whether I should be going

Kona3 or Multibridge or are we pretty sure Mojo DX will stack up favorably against these

other things.  I really have always loved my Avids, and they've performed beautifully for my

workflow (generally SD offline for film originated TV spots).  I'm seeing more and more

of the type of project described by the above workflow and with the very first one, I feel a bit

guilty about the limitations I have to subject the production to.

Thanks again.

Which limitations? What would be different if you have a different card or system?

If you plan to upgrade, I'd have a look at MC-Nitris-DX. Looks like it's the power of a Symphony Nitris for less than half the price of a traditional MCA-HD.

Sorry, I didn't provide enough info.  Ive got MCA (no Dnxcel). 

There are so many segments for the project that they didn't have

a budget for an online HD finish.   Originally, it was P2 and I was

going to work in DVCpro HD and stay there up to my image seq.

output.  Then they wanted to use new Panasonic cam and AVC-intra.

So I had to tell them, I couldn't do that.   Then it became Sony and HDcam

aquisition.  Well, I can't do HD-SDI either.  Granted, they were looking at

finishing online on a slightly increased offline budget, so expectations should

rightly be managed.  Still, I don't much like to be in a position to tell folks what

I can't do.  Rather tell 'em that of course I can.  So yes, I'll likely be looking at Nitris.

Thank you.

Well, if you can not do HD-SDI, how will you get the HD images back into your system during online portion of project?  You said hightest DNxHD, but did not specify the path into you box.

Also, are you using a Mojo to view on a broadcast monitor during SD offline?  If so, the DNxHD36 could be a problem since it is a HD format.  Don't know how that will interact with a Mojo.

Also, is there any stock footage material coming into this project?  If so is it ONLY 23.98 based?  If not, if stock is 29.97 based, then I would think long and hard as to whether I would want to offline / online in a 23.98 format.  Much pain lies in that path.  There I would capture 29.98 downconverts and conform in 59.94 - you did say you wanted a 1080i master in the end, didn't you?  To me, that implies a 59.94 frame rate. In general I try to stay in the frame rate of the final deleverable as much as possible. This simplifies things greatly.

Jef

I agree with Jef that if you need to add existing 60i footage, you'll simplify your workflow by going for 60i.

I don't completely agree on staying the in frame rate of the deliverable. 23.98p/24p masters are Universal, so if ALL your sources are 23/24p, I'd go for a 23/24p master, and derive any other deliverables from there.

Thanks, Jef.  I will be ingesting at a colleague's shop with his MCA +Dnxcel using his

VTR.   I will edit back at my shop, get approval then recapture those sequences back

at his shop, from where I will export the image sequences. 

By the way, is 1:1 mxf considered the closest thing to "uncompressed" when I recapture that stuff?

Or should I still be using a DNxHD res.?

All material should be 23.98 all the way thru digital color correction.  From there (Lustre)we will

ouput to 1080i HDcam tape (where pulldown will come in) slate them and layback audio mixes.

Should be no 60i stuff introduced in the first part of the workflow.  I suppose there is a chance,

however.  So...

They'll still shoot 23.98p for the look, but I suppose I could just add 3:2 out of the deck during

my initial ingest of dailies and the recapture later.   Does that sound better?

Thanks for helping with this.

C.S.

Well, with a MCA + DNx card, in HD you can ONLY do DNx compressed HD.  In SD you can do 1:1 - which is truly uncompressed.  You must go to a Symphony Nitris or DS Nitris to get uncompressed HD in the Avid line.

Captureing 23.98 with 3:2 is not necessarily better.  Just easier in certain workflows.  Like I said, it depends if you have a Mojo and are wanting to view footage on a monitor outside the computer.  I am not sure that special DNx 30 (?) for progressive material will be viewable through a Mojo.  You should test that.

Plus there is the area of effects.  In 23.98, some effects will look better, some worse.  A simple credit roll is a great example.  Very hard to get a good looking one in straight 23.98, much easier in 59.94 interlaced.

If it were me and I knew for CERTAIN that there was never going to be a request for a film out of the master, then I would work in 59.94 interlace from 23.98 with 3:2 added.  But that is just me and I do not know all the parameters of you project.

Good luck,

Jef

Thanks, Jef.

Definitely no film out.  Generally these will be cuts only w/o gfx or supers.

Since the Hi-res will go to color correct session as .tif sequences, I thought 

maybe the progressive project would make for a more straight forward export.

(no messing with field order-not that that's a huge issue)

Pulldown can wait until we lay it all back to HDcam master. 

Seems like I can monitor by simply switching the project format to an NTSC 24p.

This is an Adrenaline by the way.  

Pulldown will come into the equation at some point, so maybe just to be on the 

safe side (in the case that some stock ftg. or some supered GFX find their way into the project)

I should just take it in with pulldown and leave it at that.

Thanks

My recommendation would be to opt for 23.98p all the way.

Filmout or not, if you ever have to distribute the result internationally, a 23.98p master will enable you to easily create a variety of delivery formats.

Thanks.  

There will be a lot of material and I'd rather bring my G tech drives over to my colleague's

to ingest.  Will a G Raid (FW400) easily sustain DNxHd36?  I'd rather not copy over to my SCSI

Raid.  Or should I just ingest into a 23.98 NTSC project, edit and simply switch the format

to 1080p for the hi-res recapture after approval.  

Thanks.

Look at the estimated storage requirements for DNxHD36. I think it's just a little less demanding than 3:1 SD.

I've run 3:1p SD from FW800 drives, so I'd expect it to keep up with '36.

If you have no way of monitoring HD in offline, you will not be better off offlining in HD, and you might just as well offline in 14:1p or 3:1p SD.

Thanks very much.  I will most likely offline in SD. 

Regarding monitoring HD in an SD hardware setup, seems like simply switching

from 1080 to NTSC 23.98p does the real time downconvert through the Adrenaline.

Critical HD monitoring I cannot do, but won't really need to in this case.

This will be the last time I do this.  I've been reluctant to upgrade with the looming and now

confirmed changes coming.   But I will upgrade this summer-Nitris I think.   I'm just scratching

my head about a deck.   I read one of your posts in the "Adrenaline Dead?" thread and it

seems like your concept of a well-equipped offline/online model is pretty similar to mine.

Unfortunately (or fortunately) my local market has gone HDcam SR.  I'm thinking of

easing into online a bit.  I have offered up full res SD finish here and there if that's

what they really need.   I don't think I want to become a fully online capable house,

though I'd still like to offer the occasional finish if the project is right.   But an SR deck

is a bit much in this scenario.  

Thanks again.

Hi again,

Job makes a good point about the ability to make a "universal" master if you go 23.98.  And since you are on an Adrenaline, you have more monitoring options than on a Mojo.

So with the caveat that any interlaced stock footage will be a pain to deal with, 23.98 should be a good method.

Jef