raspago:

That has changed, my friend.

Lets look at one job offline edited on a non Avid NLE. 4 weeks allowed for the offline. Overran by two weeks over due to crashing, rendering and media management problems.  To meet deadline the Online facility had to work double shifts. Audio post (us) had 8 days slashed from our time.The result was a sound mix rushed out the door with minimal checking on a same day courier to the layback facility and then overnight FedEx to Sundance to meet the deadline. 

Even without counting the cost of the mental anguish the physical cost of this one production exceeded the hard cost difference between the "cheaper" NLE used and Avid.  The program still won a best editing award at Sundance for the offline editor using the other nle showing once again that any NLE is just a tool. 

I’m hoping the new pricing for the Mojo DX is not true. If it is, it could be a wrong timing for Avid new thinking. With the bad economy, and possible recession ahead, most of us are very careful, when it comes to spending and upgrades.

Fred

raspago:

.- If you add that the price of a Mojo DX is several times the price than a Kona 3, an Aja IO HD or a Xena 2K (all of them with analog connectivity) well, you can say goodbye to the low to middle end market.

FYI: Kona 3 and Xena are all digital I/O - with very basic analog outs.

And I agree with Job.

Flame and such are high-end.

Adrenaline is middle of the road. Symphony as the standard finishing for this level.

Low end are XPro, software only MC, etc.

We handle all type of clients (mostly middle end) and this patterns generally follows.

What has changed is the mentality of the purchaser.  The bottom line purchase price is now the holy grail rather than the cost of ownership.

.- I partially agree with you.

For me, the cost of ownership is far a more important concern, that's why I use Avid instead of Render Cut Pro.

And a new Nitris DX box is not outrageously expensive, in fact, for what it does (or what they say it does) is actually a good buy it can pay for itself.

But there are also cheap products that do the job beatifully, like After Effects.(the bundled "Keylight" keyer is simply magnificent)

But that's not my point.

My issue is with the "new thinking" blah blah blah and then it comes the Mojo DX, with no Analog I/Os, HDMI only monitoring and a hefty price tag.

This is how Avid wants to appeal to younger editors or small posthouses?

What's exactly is the new thinking?

FYI: Kona 3 and Xena are all digital I/O - with very basic analog outs.

.- They have 12 bit component I/O with down/cross/upconversion. If you call this basic, well , I respect your opinion.

This is more than enough for me.

It's a shame you can only use this hardware with crappy NLEs.

Although an Aja card is what a Flame/Smoke/Flint, etc uses.

What about the Mojo DX?

NONE, not even basic.

And the Kona 3 is $ 2,500.

What about the Mojo DX?

Several times that price.

And I agree with Job.

Flame and such are high-end.

.- Did I say they weren't?

I also agree.

But I wasn't talking about MY perception precisely.

Adrenaline is middle of the road. Symphony as the standard finishing for this level.

.- Maybe for you or for me, but not for the thousands of newbies and small post houses (I know a lot)

And not from a PRICE point of view.

In this tainted market, $ 20,000 is perceived as a humongous price tag.

Is not MY perception, JOB's perception or DOM's perception, is this "Democratized" Market's perception.

Low end are XPro, software only MC, etc.

In which level you'd put the FCS + Kona 3 combo?

While FCP is, in my opinion, a stupid inferior toy, I can't say the same about COLOR or DVD STUDIO PRO.

And of course, I wouldn't call tha Aja hardware a toy.

We handle all type of clients (mostly middle end) and this patterns generally follows.

.- We also handle a all type of clients and , at least for us, this patterns does not always follows.

The bottom line is that I thought the "New thinking" was something to reach to the younger editor, but simply I was wrong.

Regards.

raspago:

If you call this basic, well , I respect your opinion.

Yes and it has RCAs for audio outputs.

raspago:

But I wasn't talking about MY perception precisely

Again, I am talking about our clients - from home FCP systems (yes we deal with such) to ad agencies doing mostl smoke/flame work.

raspago:

Maybe for you or for me,

See above.

raspago:

In which level you'd put the FCS + Kona 3 combo?

Between MC and AXP.

raspago:

The bottom line is that I thought the "New thinking" was something to reach to the younger editor, but simply I was wrong.

I'm still holding my judgement until Sunday/Monday.

Buddy, first of all I'd like to clarify this discussion is not a "Who's right" contest. At least never was my intention.

If I'm judging something, I'm judging Avid, maybe judging this market, maybe even the new wave of editors, but not the fellow posters and their opinions.

Yes and it has RCAs for audio outputs.

.- Again, The new Mojo has NONE (maybe RCA audio) and is several times the price of a Kona 3.

And still, there are cheaper hardware that have all the I/O spectrum.

Again, I am talking about our clients - from home FCP systems (yes we deal with such) to ad agencies doing mostl smoke/flame work.

.- Lucky you!

We work with ad agencies (with big clients) that when we say "Flame" or "Smoke", they call the Fire Rescue.

Or they light a "laughing cigarrette"

Between MC and AXP.

.- Neither work with uncompressed HD. Neither have a "cheap" HD/HDV hardware solution, not even for monitoring.

I'm still holding my judgement until Sunday/Monday.

.- So am I , Buddy, so am I.

But , from a price point of view, I doubt it.

raspago:

blah

You are being an ass Buddy.

Good luck to you.

I'm a new younger editor working from home with my young wife    who is a Director/Producer. We love our Avid we outlaid some 10k for the suite and that my friends is a lot of money to us, But it seems not to everyone on this forum maybe not well established old editors anyway.

What I'm getting at is that when us new young editors can't afford the Avid products and start using other NLEs by the time I can afford these so called high end products it's all to late for Avid by this time we would be trained up in other software and being old then wouldn't find it easy to change to another NLE...

And it seems unless come Monday Avid's prices are inline with other NLE's and 3rd party H/ware they are an old dog waiting for the pound my friends...

You are being an ass Buddy.

.- Am I?

Did I called you  names or did I say something personally offensive to you?

Good luck to you.

.- Huh? What?

Why is that?

Did I offend someone here?

raspago:

.- Huh?

Why is that?

Did I offend someone here?

As I read it....

It seems your condascending use of 'Buddy' and flippant 'Lucky you' where unecessary. I'm not here to convince you if Avid is right or wrong. It is not in my interest. I serve both the Avid and FCP industry. I have several shows under my belt cut on FCP (including a show I supervised that won a national Emmy for research).

I know what Kona and Decklink can do. We have some - as well as Mojo, Mojo SDI, Adrenaline, Nitiris, Meridiens, etc.

Like I said, I'm am holding my judgement until Sunday/Monday.

If I read your wrong - apologies in advance.

It seems your condascending use of 'Buddy'

.- Whaaaaat??? Condescending??? 

I call EVERYBODY "buddy"!!!

and flippant 'Lucky you' where unecessary.

.- Flippant??? 

What is wrong with you?

Why don't you both get married and be done with it. I’m sure we can organise a wedding video right fellers...

 Can't we all just get along?

Why don't you both get married and be done with it. I’m sure we can organise a wedding video right fellers...

.-Only if that video is edited on a Nitris DX