Hi,

 I've been having some problems when trying to output my 16:9 timeline in media composer. I have captured all my 16:9 footage using the DV25 420 resolution. In the preview monitor the footage looks how it should when displayed as 16:9, which suggests that the footage has been captured with the correct aspect ratio. However, when I go to output the finished edit (sequence) it outputs the black that I have added at the start and end as 4:3 but the footage remains as 16:9. It basically jumps from 4:3 Black to 16:9 footage. I’m laying off the sequence onto a Sony HVR M15E tape deck. It is a HDV deck but set to DV input so to correspond with the DV footage. So I don't think it has anything to do with the tape deck.

 I am wondering if there is a setting someone which makes the timeline all 16:9 including any black, fillers or graphics which I have dropped onto the timeline? When I initially created the project I set it to 25i PAL, is this the correct setting for widescreen projects?

 If anybody knows the answer to why my timeline is acting so weird I would be very very grateful as I have tried everything within my knowledge but still can't solve this tedious problem!

 Thanks,

 Mark

 Are you seeing letterboxing on your 16:9 footage?

If so, let's say you have a black frame with letterboxing... how are you certain that the letterboxing and the black frame just aren't blending together and making it appear as though it's full frame?

A quick test would be to change the black to white and see if is just showing you the letterbox

Another thing is to make sure you've applied a "Reformat" to any items that are not natively 16:9

Hi Kenton, thanks for the reply. I can tell that the laid off sequence is jumping from 4:3 to 16:9 because when i play the tape back in my camera you can see that the footage is jumping from 4:3 to 16:9 in the view finder. You can tell this is happening because the transport controls on the view finder are changing to match the pixel aspect ratio. Also, if i add any kind of title generated in avid, it displays it as 4:3, even though during the creation period the title tool is displaying as 16:9 and i'm selecting titles to be displayed as 16:9 in the digital cut tool!

It is as though i'm dropping 16:9 rushes onto a 4:3 timeline and the avid is constantly trying display things as 4:3..........!!!

I'm a bit confused about what you are seeing...

DV25 16x9 is anamorphic...that is, the video recorded is 720 x 480 -- just like regular 4x3 video -- but the aspect of the pixels is altered so that a widescreen monitor will stretch the image so that it appears correctly.  So full frame video that was shot anamorphically will appear squished horizontally on a regular monitor and look normal on a widescreen monitor.  (Likewise, normal 4x3 footage looks correct on 4x3 monitors but stretched on widescreen monitors.)

You say that the black is 4x3 but the video is 16x9. Both should entirely fill the video frame (both are 720x480) and if the black was the wrong aspect ratio, how could you tell -- after all, it is just black?

You don't mention what software version you are running.  Is all of your footage DV25?  Are you using the DV effect apeture or are you using the regular (720x486) one?

Are your source/record viewers set to 16:9?  This determines the format of the titles when launching the title tool.  Meaning if your viewers are set to 4:3 and you launch the title tool Avid assumes you want to create a 4:3 title.  The inverse is also holds true.

Here's a thread that may be helpful

http://community.avid.com/forums/p/56509/315724.aspx

Using the camera as a monitor is a poor choice.  It's a lot easier to troubleshoot problems if you have a broadcast monitor that manually switches between 4:3 and 16:9.

Thanks guys I appreciate the replies. I know this sounds odd so I'll try and be a little clearer....

Firstly I’m not using the camera view finder as a monitor as I have a 19" TV hooked up to the avid acting as a client monitor. This is not a specific broadcast monitor but instead a flat panel wide screen TV. This displays the entire sequence fine all in 16:9 (as it should do).

I was first made aware of the problem when I sent some screeners back to my client who informed me that the aspect ratios were jumping around when he tried to capture the footage into a widescreen premiere project. I ran a few tests myself and noticed that when I re-captured the footage which had been laid off in Avid into Premiere, the capture tool preview window was jumping in size from 4:3 where the black was and then back to 16:9 at the point where the footage began. I then ran the tape through my camcorder and noticed that the same thing was happening on the view finder. I could tell that the aspect ratio was changing because the transport controls on the viewfinder change position according to whatever aspect ratio is on the tape.

Kevin in response to your questions..... I am running version 2.7.2, all the footage is DV25 and I’m not quite sure what you mean by the DV effect aperture?? Could you explain? And the frame size is 720 x 576 as I am in PAL mode.

Thanks guys, hope this makes a little more sense!

Mark, does your footage have wide screen signalling in it - first half of line 23 in PAL land.  It looks like a series of black / white dots / dashes at the very top of the frame?

regards

Brian

Hi Brian,

I've just checked the original rushes and I can't see any black/white dots and dashes. However, it isn't the footage I’m having problems with; it’s the material that Avid has generated, i.e. fillers and graphics that won't output in 16:9. The original footage is outputting in the same 16:9 aspect ratio that it came in as.

Any further thoughts would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

Mark, your camcorder generates a wide screen flag, which causes your monitor to switch aspect ratios. These flags are common in consumer camcorders, but they are not part of any professional standard. The Avid for instance does not generate such flags. All unprocessed footage will likely have the WS flag, whereas any processed footage (Avid generated filler, titles, dissolves, effects) will have the flag removed.

If you want to avoid the auto-switching of aspect ratios, you could add a submaster effect to your entire sequence, and then I think none of the material will have the WS flag anymore.

Ahh, ok that makes sense. This is my first proper wide screen project so it’s all a learning curve at the moment.

Also, I’ve noticed that any graphics imported into media composer that have been created in after effects using the PAL D1/DV widescreen square pixel project setting appear to be auto-switching aspect ratios in the same fashion that the fillers, titles etc were behaving, when viewed on either the camera view finder or in the premiere capture tool once they have been outputted from the Avid timeline onto tape. Yet when viewed back on a conventional widescreen TV they appear to be in the correct aspect ratio, along with the unprocessed footage. Is this also due to the wide screen flag issue? I'm guessing it is as any imported graphics would also fall into the 'processed footage' category.

Thanks for your help Job; it’s starting to make sense.

However, it isn't the footage I’m having problems with; it’s the material that Avid has generated, i.e. fillers and graphics that won't output in 16:9. The original footage is outputting in the same 16:9 aspect ratio that it came in as.

Yes, that's the point, AVID doesn't generate or recognise any widescreen signalling, so nothing generated in AVID will be flagged as widescreen. 

Switching the monitor view to 16:9 shows the correct aspect ratio in AVID, and ensures that captions / wipes etc are created in the correct aspect ratio but that's all.

regards

Brian

Fantastic, it all makes sense now. I was completely oblivious to what wide screen signaling/flagging was.

Thanks to everyone for their help.