I have just one question. Has anyone else noticed that the exposure seems to change when you import the files into Avid. It looks about a stop brighter then the quicktime ref files?

Vik

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Local Directory

 Are you exporting out as REC709 from the RED tools and are you selecting 601/709 in the import?

Michael

Wouldn't you potentially want to export RGB from Red Tools and import with 601/709 to keep the full, unflattened range (which I know may not be suitable for broadcast but which can be flattened later to broadcast-safe levels)?

 You could  - it's either happening in the RED tools or in Avid bringing the 0-255 to 16-235 (in 8 bit values). Might be worth seeing which tool has better control over that - or it could be the same.

Michael

Sorry for jumping in but potentially we may be receiving some material shot on Red. Although having read this fantastic thread you'd think I'd be able to make up my mind I still can't work out if I should do this job on Avid or FCP.

It would be a 10 minute corporate promo delivering on HDCAM SR. I have Symphony Nitris v1.7.7 and Adrenaline 2.8.3.

Final Cut 6.0.3 on a G5 on XSan.

Looking at examples of the FCP workflow it does look more simple but I'd love to find a workable one for Avid.

As always my heart say Avid but my head says FCP

 In both cases you will be transcoding to an HD format - ProRes for FCP and DNxHD for Avid - the times are the same so that is a wash. Depending on the amount of sources, you would just offline/online at the desired finishing data rate.

Use REC 709 from Red tools, if on Mac create QT ref (REDrushes) and import into Avid at desired DNxHD resolution.

Michael

This discussion seems a bit odd. Many of the comments are framed from the POV of production people who control their own post. That's not the case of most editors. If you are an editors that services outside clients, then it's pretty short-sighted to discount RED. Before you know it, a client will be knocking on your door with a project and you'll be wondering what to do. The whole discussion against the Avid workarounds with RED seem to be based on the lack of actual experience. Many of these steps are very fast and quite frankly, using MetaCheater is no different - and faster, in fact - than dealing with Flex files and film ingest. Since nearly all of the post tools are available as free downloads and there is test .R3D footage floating around the internet, it would make a lot of sense for every Avid editor to do some homework and see for themseves what the workflow is.

Sincerely,

Oliver

let's assume being on a Mac since FCP is involved. QT reference import in MC is a one time transcode and ready to start editing. Same time.

If you create QT wrapped DNxHD, then there is the import step.

Michael

I haven't actually tested the quality difference between importing the QT refs and converting in Red Alert or RedCine from the RAW file. Have you? I'm curious if there is a hit. I'm not a big fan of the reference file quality in general.

Just curious.

 I haven't looked at it either form a quality difference point of view. I do know they are working on a new version of the codec so perhaps there will be improvements there.

Michael

MichaelP:

 I haven't looked at it either form a quality difference point of view. I do know they are working on a new version of the codec so perhaps there will be improvements there. 

Terry & Michael,

There is a quality difference, however, when I tested it earlier this year it was with older builds and tools. The difference seems quite minor - almost inconsequential for TV applications. The QT reference files are a "down & dirty" version of debayering. According to what Graeme Nattress told me at the time, "Half of the green pixels are omitted and the nearest set of RGB pixels are assumed to be co-sited (but they're not) to produce an RGB image with half the resolution of the original. This is very good and quick and as it's a downsample without a downsampling filter applied, very sharp. But on the downside, there can be fringes on colors and some aliases. It's a good compromise for quick playback."

In addition, a number of the tools don't come across in the QT reference files because they don't work in the QT component. For instance, curves.

I got the best quality going RedAlert (or RedCine) to uncompressed TIFF from 4K to 2K (or 1920x1080). Then stitch the TIFF files together in QT Pro. Import to FCP or Avid as desired.

Sincerely,

Oliver

How much quality is lost with the ref files? The workflow I settled on for Red (all for future reference) was to import the QT references from red alert striaght into Avid (batch import to the clips from metacheater). I just grabbed some stuff from Red Relay (2k stuff for the test) to try it out and it looked good at 1080p in Avid. I'll try something with more green in it next, but as far as I can tell, it looks beyond passable at 1080. If you're finishing above that, it won't be using the Avid media anyway....

I actually thought the quality was pretty good for TV. It's a bit better going with proper debayering, but not bad through the QT refs. Some RED footage is noisy and the difference between Build 16 and previous builds in the sample images I've seen on the web appear pretty striking. A marked improvement in blue-channel noise and compression artifacts. Here's my article that covers most of my testing earlier this year:

http://tinyurl.com/679w6e

My basic (and fastest) workflow was to open .R3D in RedAlert. Change the color settings to my preference. Create new refs (nearly instant). Then I used a Compressor droplet to generate desired QT media as a batch. This could then be imported into FCP or Avid as desired.

- Oliver

 First of all, sorry if this is not the appropiate thread.

Today is a happy/sad day for me. I´ve just updated my Dual G5 2.5 to Media Composer 3.0.1 over Tiger.

I´ve enjoyed the wonderful features of this wonderful software... it´s incredible. And suddenly: a phone call. A job (very well paid) needs an editor with its own editing system... but... the job has been shot with the red one camera.

They don´t have the time to wait for transcoding. They need an editor with a FCP system.

I´ve tried very hard to convince the producers about the advantages of working in Avid. But they only say: "Wake up and wellcome to the 21st Century." (in a friendly way)

Why?  I don´t like FCP!... I want to stay on the Avid side forever!...

Red one is , now, part of the future. People do not have  time for transcoding.

I´m a little bit deppressed about this situation.

We, the avid costumers, need an effective response for this problem.

Thanks.