If you had a chance to voice opinions, concerns, wishes (not feature requests) or praise to Avid Execs relating to DS, what would it be?  It might be interesting to hear why you use DS instead of other products and how use you use it.  What are your expectations of DS going forward?  (Note to other mods:  This is a DS specific question, so please don't move the thread.  Thanks)

DS is an outstanding tool for both composition and editing. And there are no tools that I know of (certainly none in the Avid family) that can do what DS does. From NTSC and PAL video formats through high definition and to DI work for film, DS can do just about anything that needs to be done in post.

I have explained to clients repeatedly that the DS gives you extraordinary flexibility in editing. If you need a quick effect -- including something you'd send out-of-house or to an After Effects artist, you can simply do it in DS and keep working. If you need to do compositing but you need to edit those composites together, DS is ready for that, too.

I believe the Avid Executives know about the wish lists (for anyone who wants a comprehensive one, please see: http://dswiki.wikispaces.com/DS+Wish+Lists)

I'd urge Avid to continue the development of this truly unique tool and especially to make it work well with other Avid tools, such as Digidesign's ProTools at all frame rates. I would also urge Avid to carefully follow the new digital camera formats and allow the DS to work with many more of them than it does now. There is a workflow for the RED ONE Cinema here: http://dswiki.wikispaces.com/RED but it was developed in the field without a lot of assistance from Avid. I'd love for Avid to work with the folks who develop these new systems and to work up a workflow for DS as well as all of their products as these products are developed.

DS has all of the underpinnings necessary to effectively challenge all other editing and compositing systems. I would that Avid continue its development so that DS can be the standard for editing and compositing in one application.

Avid needs too:

Continue to develop and support DS at full speed

Restructure pricing to be much more competitive

Quit making cute little re-packaged boxes with purple logos that say AVID and let third parties provide hardware on an "approved" basis. I told Chas Smith that in a meeting in 1999 or so! Open up the platform.

Concentrate on making the finest software there is available. Period. When the tool-set is there and powerful there is little argument other than the aforementioned price point.


H. Chasteen

mhollis:

I'd love for Avid to work with the folks who develop these new systems and to work up a workflow for DS as well as all of their products as these products are developed.

Agreed. I'd like to see file based integration with XDCAM HD.

I fought for years inside Avid to advance DS and will add my voice now that I am outside the company.

DS is an incredible product, with a passionate customer base and an amazing development team both of whom have astounded me over the years. Whether it was the varied and remarkable films, programs, spots and commercials the users have produced over the years or the (mostly) pleasant surprises the development team produced even with limited resources, DS is an incredibly valuable but undervalued asset at Avid. For years, it has served as Avid's pathfinder product into new workflows and I believe it can provide many more years of service for its users and the company if given the chance.

Matt

DS is the finest editing machine I have ever used.  For the better part of 20 years I have operated in linear bays, Quantel's Henry and Media Composer.  The DS gives me the rich feature set and reliability to move ahead with any session for our A-List clients many of whom are impressed with the elegance attached to the experience.

My sincere compliments and appreciation to all involved in developing and supporting Avid's DS, I can easily see finishing out my career using this outstanding tool.

Chuck Crews / senior DS Artist / Picture Head, Hollywood

I mostly agree with Matt, however, DS is soooo far behind the other systems when it comes to 3D compositing and tracking that if I actually had time to learn a new system with more features I would in a New York minute.

I have been an Avid customer for many many years and it is very disheartening to see what has happened to a company that used to be on the cutting edge of film and television technology. The whole "wait and see" attitude at Avid has gotten really old and I need to see some major progress with DS before I will invest another dime into Avid.

ASatinoff:

. The whole "wait and see" attitude at Avid has gotten really old and I need to see some major progress with DS before I will invest another dime into Avid.

-You are not alone.  I have heard from many people out there that feel the same way.  Until Avid comes out with some news, no one is buying any Avid stuff.  I think people would rather hear something that may not be ideal than to hear nothing at all. At least it's something.  If the lack of disclosure continues, people may move on to other products and build their business around different systems.  Post Production happened before Avid, and it will happen without them. 

XML is tying together alot of systems from different manufacturers like FCP, Assimilate, Quantel, AutoDiscreet and others.  I don't think Avid even has a seat at the XML table.

I've been on the DS since ver. 2.  When it came time to select a non-linear editor back then, I knew I didn't want to work with the Media Composer, as it was too much of an offline editing system than an online system.  I've always done my own graphics, animation, audio and video effects, and the DS was exactly what I needed for my workflow.  It still is, although the lack of development in key (no pun intended) areas has been a disappointment.

There are so many things that I love about this system.  I can be creative and still get my work done quickly.  I love the ease of navigating the timeline, creating and deconstructing effects at will, the flexibility of the compositing layout.  Areas of development that I appreciate: custom timelines, effects trees, HD throughput, cache processing, and expressions.

The freelance editors we work with, know MC, FCP and DS.  They all prefer working on the DS over MC and FCP.

I also want to second the wish that the DS will handle disk based formats more elegantly than it currently does, XDCam in particular.

I wish Avid could have seen the potential of the DS years ago after they acquired it as their PC solution.  Letting this editing system languish has hurt Avid, the DS and its operators.

Liz Boyer

Senior Video Editor

Hallmark Cards, Inc.

 

Puting aside the need for further development for the moment. Avid really needs to spend some time advertising and training with the software they currently have.

Just last week a client came in and was amazed at what we could accomplish using the DS. They had no idea Avid had a product like this. They had just spent days trying to recreate opticals based on Symphonies Fluidmotion. The Scratch system was getting them nowhere fast. DS saved their schedule. A couple of clicks to load in the DPX seq, Afe and a render and off they went with the smoothest timewarps they had ever seen. If they had known about DS last year they may well have spent money on 5 Avid systems rather than the 5 Scratch boxes they bought for DI.

Gus was recently asking about training facilities for DS. Would it surprise you to learn that no one in L.A is currently offering classes and hasn't for years now? The DS Training software has amazing potential. Why not offer once a month training at targeted locations. If the current schools are not willing to offer the classes, Avid needs to pick up the slack.

I just received an e-mail from my Guild. They are having a show and tell with Adrenaline in a couple of weeks. When was the last DS show and tell? I think the majority of the Editors at local 700(Los Angeles MPEG) already know what Media Composer is and isn't capable of. 

I almost didn't respond to this posting as I'm about talked out on this subject. I've given my opinion over the years to Avid and nothing has come of it. Media Composer is their darling, Symphony will be their saviour and they won't hear anything different.

Michael

mrmikster:

Media Composer is their darling, Symphony will be their saviour and they won't hear anything different. 

The installed base of these products is so huge, it would be (and has been) silly to ignore them. So it's understandable, though tragic, that Avid has been coasting on them for so long.

But back to DS, which started ten years ago with such amazing potential that customers bought it for an immensely wide variety of uses. It has been such a powerful tool for broadcast, local/regional/national commercials, film, graphics & design, corporate, DI, and plenty of other applications. Like every other production tool, there are big, multi-system customers and single-system customers like me. For us, DS is a kick-a** soup-to-nuts tool that I couldn't possibly live without. For others, it's a single-use tool (conform only, graphics only, etc.).

So without alienating a segment of users, Avid's only choice is to make DS the best all-around tool for everything. No small task.

Immediately, I see a very high priority in:

• mastering tapeless workflow.
• playing well with others (seamless interchange of data with other apps)
• make it and keep it affordable. Stop being elitist and greedy about the price point, and just sell 'em.
• See the "DS Wish List" on the DS-Wiki for a priority of specific feature requests

My two cents.

John

jpheiser:

See the "DS Wish List" on the DS-Wiki for a priority of specific feature requests

For those who have not yet visited the DS Wiki, here is the link.  Like the DS List, it is100% DS User owned and operated.

http://dswiki.wikispaces.com/

 

 

What does Avid need to know about DS?

«Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!» - the Queen, "Through The Looking Glass"

GusC:

... the DS List, it is100% DS User owned  ...

Sergey Brin might  have an issue with that statement.  :-)

Avid DS is Avid's best NLE.  Its a solid editor with great graphics and compositing tools.  If you edited on DS and then went to edit on Symphony Nitris or MC Adrenaline, it is like having your hands tide behind your back. 

Effect editing on the timeline in Avid DS is far more flexible, robust, and easy, then editing effects in another Avid.  You can easily, bypass an effect rather than removing it like in Symphony.  Effects are easily stackable and re-arranging the order of effects is very easy.  There are also three ways to applye effects on the timeline within DS.  One, apply effect to a clip.  Two, apply effect to a specific track.  Three, apply effect to the timeline.  This allows an unlimited amount of possibilities for effect work.
In other Avid's, you can only apply effects to a segment or clip.  This limits to what you can do and achieve.

The other big advantage to editing in DS is the audio editing is much more streamlined and effeciant.  DS allows you to edit inside "audio containers."  This provides you with being able to edit in samples as opposed to frames.  Smyphony does not have this ability. 

Everything in DS is key frameable.  EVERYTHING!  You do not have to promote anything to "advanced keyframes" just to get more funtionality. 

The graphics layout in DS, which allows you do create your titles, is much more advanced than any other Avid's Title Tool.  We all know the Title Tool is not what it should be and Avid has made no attempt to improve the Title Tool over the years. 

Anyway, I can go on but this is my short list.