Hi all - I need some help

I'm on a S/N vers 1.7.4 and am having a real bear of time getting the Time Shift Audio plugin to work as described in the recent Tips section of the AvidInfocus newsletter of Nov 06. The project is in HD, 1080i, 59.94 and we're using the DNX145 resolution.

Here is what I'm trying;

- I have a 50 sec long clip that I wish to reduce in length by 5% - that would make the new clip aprrox 47:15 in length

- I render the video motion clip (now 47:15 in length)  and drop it on V2 over the existing 50 sec clip. The original audio - 50 secs in length - is still on A1/2

- I then go select A1 & A2 & mark clip the entire :50 clip. I also deselect all video tracks - but monitor V2.

- Under tools, I select AudioSuite, and use the pulldown menu to get to "Time Shift" and double click the plugin icon, and then a the new window, entitled 'Time Shift' opens

- In the middle box of that window, the one labled as TIME, I enter the SHIFT value as 105 and leave ALL othe values unchanged.

- Then, prior to rendering (and following the Avid tip) I enter trim mode and trim back A1 & A2 till they match, in length, the motion clip that is on V2, which is 47:15

- Then I finally render the effect on both A1 & A2.

The results have been VERY disappointing. The lip sync looks like a real bad dub job from the 70's. I have tried multiple variations of the the steps that the Avid tip outlined, ALL with similar results.

Has anyone here done this sucessfully ? Or, can someone shed any light as to what might be the problem ? Am I missing a step or proceeding the wrong way ?

Feel free to reply here or offlist, or if you can spare the time, try calling me at 201-735-2971.

Thanks in advance

 

Dave B

 

Dave,

Apply a TimeWarp effect to the video and adjust the speed to 105%. Don't use a Motion Effect.

The percentage must be a round number, no fractions.

This should work much better for you.

Regards,
Bob

I've never been able to get the audio time shift plugin to work properly in Avid. If you were to do the exact same settings with that same plug in on ProTools it would work. Weird.

Take a look at the tutorial I posted.
http://www.avid.com/exchange/blogs/tipstrends/archive/2007/11/13/288322.aspx

The mistake I often make is not hitting return after I type the shift amount.

Bob

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the replies.

Now, here's an update as to what I've found.

- Time Warp is the way to go. Do NOT use a motion clip.

- I was able to take a 50 sec clip, reduce it by 5% in a Time Warp, and similarly set the Time Shift Plugin to 105%. Like Bob points out in the video tutorial, be sure to hit enter after enetering the % values on the plugin dialogue window.

Bravo - It worked flawlessly - it turned a :50 clip into :47 and maitained perfect lip-synch and audio quality.

So it works well for short form solutions. Under :60.

Then, I tried an similar experiment with a MUCH longer clip. I attempted a 5% reduction on a clip that was 9:19:00 in length.

This did not work as well as the shorter clip. The video was ofcourse OK, but the audio had two very distinct problems:

1) There was a noticeable loss of lip synch after approx the 4 min mark. Not the end of the world as this can be remedied with pull-ups and add edits, albeit still troubling.

2) The audio exhibited a very noticeable 'echo' like effect. I tried slipping either of the tracks a few frames in each direction, but no mater what combination I used, I could NOT get rid of that echo like effect, UNLESS I selected one track and made it mono.

So it appears - unless I'm missing a step - that this feature only works for sequences under :60 in length.  Anyone from Avid (Bob, Marianna) please jump in if I'm overlooking something. Or, if anyone knows how to eliminate that awful echo like quality, please let me know.

The reason behind our interest in this is to see if we can use this time warp  functionality as an HD alternative to the well respected Time Tailor process, which btw, we use most successfully in our SD environment. 

Many thanks

Dave Burke

 

 

 

Back in the Meridien Symphony days, we had a feature that we used the Universal function on. There was a prebuilt template for the audio time adjustment. We found the same thing you did, it went out of sync. The exact same plugin with the same settings worked perfectly in ProTools.

The Universal folks at the time, I believe it was Michael P. and Tom O., were surprised but admitted they hadn't tested it on any long playing projects.

So I've never expected it to work since.

Thanks Terry,

Did you guys also notice any slight 'echo' like effect ?

It sounds like one of the two tracks of the stereo pair is off by a frame or two. But try as I might, I am unable to get them back in sync, or, more criticaly, remove the echo. Is there any other plugin I could use to remove this ?

BTW - the Pro Tools option you alluded to is certainly one we have under consideration. My bosses just want us to research if in fact we have to go that route, which, it appears, we may have to.

Thanks

 

DB 

Don't remember an echo. We used to rent an external box that would adjust the audio on output in RT avoiding going to ProTools. Wish I could remember what it was called.

I have two suggestions.

What type of TimeWarp were you using? I've had perfect results with very long sequences, actual entire 1/2 hour shows using Blended VTR or Blended Interpolated. I used this to time compress shows which I believe is what you're looking to do.

Change the Audio mode from Polyphonic to Rhythmic. This should reduce the effect you're hearing.

There is information on the plug-in here:
http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?navid=48&langid=1&itemid=23096

There is a manual for it here:
http://akmedia.digidesign.com/products/docs/Time%20Shift%20Plug-in%20Guide_12080.pdf

TinyURL incase the links break:
http://tinyurl.com/39y9zt
http://tinyurl.com/34psnz

Regards,
Bob

I'm trying to do the same thing and have also noticed the echo effect.  The stereo audio basically goes out of phase.  When using "Rhythmic" the phase shift is less frequent, but still bad enough to make it unusable.

When using the "Varispeed" setting there is no phase distortion, but that setting does not allow for pitch correction.  So that aint' so good, either.

I'm wondering if anyone has found a solution to the problem.  Maybe I have setting incorrect? Or maybe it's possible to do it in two passes, like mix down the Varispeed tracks and then apply Pitch Control?

Like dburke (above), I'm trying to use the Avid as an alternative to the Time Tailor process.  So I'm working with segments up to 15 minutes in duration that I'm trying to increase up to 104% while maintaining lip sync.

Any help is appreciated.

meli:

I'm wondering if anyone has found a solution to the problem.

We found two. rent an external pitch shifting box. Use ProTools.

With Polyphonic selected, in the Transient box, click the follow button.

I had much better results using Polyphonic with this selected.

Regards,

Bob

With Polyphonic selected, in the Transient box, click the follow button.

I had much better results using Polyphonic with this selected.

Bob