Hi everyone,

I hope I'm not asking a silly question, but I've looked around the forums and haven't been able to find the answer.

I'm starting a feature film as assistant editor. 35 mm, 24 Fps, working in PAL. Adrenaline 2.6. Sound is coming in BWF. I've managed to import the files with 6 tracks of audio and metadata. I'll be delivering an OMF to the Sound Editor (Protools).

Is there any way for me to link the OMF to the original BWFs instead of the wavs or aiffs created by Avid? The idea is for the sound editor to have access to all the sound tracks in the original file (say tracks 3-6), even if only tracks 1 and 2 are in the avid edit. All the OMFs and AAFs I've tried so far are linked to the Avid sound file, and since Avid creates 1 audio file for each track, there's no access to the rest. Am I doing something wrong? I can't think af any solution.

Thanks a lot for any help.

Lister.

 

OMFs will always link to avid media files. If you wish to go back at the sound editing to the original BWF, the only way is to go through a conforming process via Pyramix or Titan. That's what I would recommend.

If you want to avoid conforming, you could make Matchframe on every clips in your sequence, add the tracks you need and then deliver an OMF with embedded media. I assume all BWF have been imported properly (Wave files at the original sample rate and bit depth).

Regards,

T.

Thanks a lot, I´ll look into Pyramix or Titan, I wasn't aware of their existence. I'm trying to avoid having to matchframe all the edits, hopefuly I'll manage to. The BWFs are fine, tc and metadata are intact after importing.

Thanks again for the information. Now I've got something to start on.

Cheers,

Lister.

Hi Lister,

If you can supply your sound department with ALL of the Adrenaline-created audio media (including those channels of audio it created but the picture editor has elected not to cut with), then ProTools 7.2 + 7.3 each has added software features for expanding protools regions to alternate channels.

From Digidesign's website:

For ProTools 7.2:

"Unique Multi-channel Field Recorder Workflow
Most location sound today is captured on multi-channel disk-based field recorders, so replacing guide track audio with alternate source material in post has become commonplace. It is often time consuming and tedious. With enhanced metadata features including iXML support and new multi-channel matching functionality, Pro Tools HD 7.2 software dramatically simplifies this process for dialog editors. Switching to alternate channels becomes as simple as right-clicking on an audio region or selection: pick a channel by name and Pro Tools instantly creates a new region and rebuilds the crossfades."

For ProTools 7.3:

"Improved Field Recorder Support
If you’re working with audio recorded by a field recorder, you can conform imported multichannel audio files to a guide track, making it easier to checkerboard dialog tracks, using the new Expand to New Tracks command. Pro Tools will create new tracks for each alternate channel and apply any of the edits and fades from the guide track to these new tracks."

---

If your Adrenaline has been set up to create 24bit audio media, then the Avid-created mono files will be perfect master-quality source material for the sound department.   Is your Avid setup to create wave files or AIFFs?  (Waves are better since they're more metadata rich, right Michael?)

Let me know if this helps,
pb

Waves are better since they're more metadata rich

I don't think that is true. Avid audiomediafiles hold quite a bit of metadata, whether they are wrapped in WAV of AIF.

BTW, I prefer doing external OMFs rather than embedded ones. I usually create helper sequences for the ProTools editors to be able to fill up their region lists with all sound from the Avid, enabling  them to browse alternate takes, wilds, etc. I wrote it down once: http://www.xs4all.nl/%7Eterburg/Publications/OMF%20EXPORT.pdf

Lister:

I'm starting a feature film as assistant editor. 35 mm, 24 Fps, working in PAL. Adrenaline 2.6. Sound is coming in BWF. I've managed to import the files with 6 tracks of audio and metadata. I'll be delivering an OMF to the Sound Editor (Protools).

Were you aware that 2.6 still had a bug affecting the import of BWF files into a 24p PAL project - exactly your setup...
Fortunately, 2.7 fixed it.

(oups) I just noticed that your original post was way before the release of that fix...

I wonder if ProTools recognizes the Avid-metadata if wrapped in AIFs vs. WAVs.  Michael can you reach out to Scott Wood or Greg Funk for that one?   Or, in other words, as far as ProTools is concerned, is there any benefit to using WAV vs. AIFF when the Avid-created media will be the final master audio media used by the ProTools sound editors?

Let us know!
Thanks,

-Phil

From my (possibly limited) understanding of this, the problem is not AIF or WAV, it's ProTools.

From my experience, I can take any WAV or AIF Avid audiomediafile to another Avid system and all metadata will travel along. In any OMF I make, all metadata of the clips belonging to the sequence is carried along. That includes any comments and other metadata created by the editorial dept.

It's just that PT - very unfortunately - does not look at that data at all. There has been - and still is - some serious room for improvement there, to put it mildly.

Phil Benson:

If you can supply your sound department with ALL of the Adrenaline-created audio media (including those channels of audio it created but the picture editor has elected not to cut with), then ProTools 7.2 + 7.3 each has added software features for expanding protools regions to alternate channels.

It's been a long time I wanted to check that.

In MC (PAL 35 mm/4 perf project, v 2.2.12 for this test), I've imported a mixdown (AAX) from Cantar, synced it with picture, apply some slip perf on the subclip, and edit a short sequence with some cuts. Then, I've made an OMF export (copy media).

I've imported this OMF In ProTools (7.3.1 cs4 for this test). And then imported the original Cantar multitrack monophonic file (AAD) in the session. Then, selecting a region, you can with a right-click either :

select Matches : ProTools allows you to replace existing region by any of the tracks found in the multitrack

or select Expand to New Tracks : ProTools will create as many new tracks (and regions) as there are in the multitrack, in addition to the existing region(s), sorted by Channel Name and/or Channel Number. Channel Name is the channel's name given by the audio engineer on the Cantar (Boom, Wireless mic, character's name, mix, etc.). It appears in Regions "matched" or "expanded" and in the Region List. Quite useful.

This feature only works with OMF composition linked to media (it doesn't work with "off-line" media).

In this test, ProTools was able to link any OMF's regions ONLY with original's BWF multitrack. If you work in MC with imported multitracks and then import all Avid audio media files in the session, Matches and Expand functions are not activated when selecting a region. Apparently, whether you work in MC with mixdowns or multitracks, you need to import original BWF multitracks in sessions.

The Expand feature works for part of a region, region(s) or an entire session's track.

For this test, Audio File Format in MC was set to WAVE (I didn't test AIF as I don't see the point working with AIF when originals files are WAVE). ProTools read a lot of metadata coming from Avid audio media file, including Name, File Comment, #Channels, Sample Rate, Bit-Depth, Original Time Stamp, Clip Name, Tape, TC Rate, Scene & Take, Shoot Date (wrong in my test, might be a ProTool's bug), Rate, User Bits, Tape ID. Didn't try to add some metadata in MC, but Comments should be read by ProTools.

ProTools Field Recorder Workflow Guide mention possible "Audio Misalignment" between OMF and Expanded Tracks. I didn't noticed that ; comparing an omf region and its "expanded sister" with a maximum zoom, the expanded region is in-sync within a sample.

To conclude, these features must be really convenient for partial or total multitrack conforming. Just need now to test it "grandeur nature" (life-size) on a 20' sequence with 8 audio tracks...