Is there any way to insert 3:2 pulldown when exporting 23.98p or 24p material to a 30i format via Quicktime (such as DV, HDV, DVCPro HD at 59.94i)?  I'm talking in AVID, not AfterEffects et al. 

When I export 23.98 720p clips to DVCProHD 1080i, then import the Quicktime into a 1080i project, for example, every fourth frame is repeated to make the fifth frame needed, causing a noticeable stutter in motion.  I've stepped through the fields to verify.  I've noticed this on other AVID products (Media Composer, etc.).

Am I the only one who would expect 3:2 insertion -- or at least the option -- when going from 24p to 30i on export?  Possible uses: DVD authoring, up-res'ing 720p/24p to 1080i for multi-resolution editing & mojo playback to NTSC (can't use multiple resolutions in 720p 23.98 projects, and no mojo output, I've just discovered!).

This post is to verify that (a) no one out there has managed to get 3:2 insertion on export and (b) no one out there has an AVID-only workaround (does not involve AfterEffects or tape decks or anything else that could generate an expense or result in added generation loss).  If so, I'll put in a feature request to have 3:2 pulldown insertion as a Quicktime export option.

Make sense, everyone?

Bump...

Seriously, has no one ever noticed that you can't get from 24p to 30i with proper 3:2 pulldown insertion?  Doesn't this bother you?

 I hear you.  I've been trying to figure out a way to get 24P footage onto my demo reel without that annoying frame-doubling stutter, and I cannot figure it out. 

The problem arises, of course, because my reel contains a mixture of 60i and 24P, and I've been building and adding to it in a 60i project for years... now that more of my stuff is shot and cut at 24P, its getting to be more and more of a problem.

I thought I'd come up with a work around to get 3:2 pulldown insertion by exporting a 60 (or 59.94) fps Quicktime from the 24P projects; sure enough, when I step through the QT file, that proper 2:3:2:3 cadence is there.  But then when I import that same file into my 60i Avid project, it does the same frame-doubling thing and will hold one frame for 4 whole fields!  This is especially surprising because I'm importing from a 60 fps Quicktime, so you'd think each frame of the Quicktime would translate to exactly one field of 60i video in Avid.  (I've tried it using both 60 fps and 59.94 fps).  Very odd that it doesn't work...

 Oh, BTW, Dekafilm, I just noticed your reply to an older post of mine on this topic in another thread...  Are we the only two people in the world concerned about this issue?

Maybe we're the only two who noticed??  Though it is a howling mystery to me, not everyone perceives bad 3:2.

BTW: I'm on the Disney lot, and several of the other feature productions here are renting FCP stations to create their Quicktime deliverables (realtime output from AVID into FCP = realtime QT creation).  It has to do with adding window burns and timecode windows in a timely manner.  It all would go away if we could do Quicktimes to 29.97 correctly from our 23.98 and 24 projects within Media Composer.

Here's hoping,

--D

hello, new to the package.  Was myself searching for a 3:2 pull down insertion tool to 24p material and came across this thread.

I find myself in the same situation and need to add the pull down without having to resort to further processing by transferring material back and forth to other apps.  Found out that Timewarp effect has a built in template that allows for that in MC, and am just hoping that it doesn't do anything else aside from simply adding the 3:2 jitter frames.  You'd think that this tool would be in a category like, say, Film Tools, etc.

Let me know what you discover.

However, I know it will not solve my particular problem:  when bringing 24p material into a 30i project, the fourth frame is simply doubled-up (er... 2:2:2:4 'pulldown' is what someone would call it if it were in fact a real pulldown pattern).  I would be surprised if a plugin could recognize that particular pattern.  It doesn't exist anywhere else in nature -- just in the AVID family.  That's the problem.  ;o)

For me, AfterEffects has been the solution.  There, I can add 3:2 to a 24p clip and import that new 30i clip instead.

Again, let me know if you find joy, though.

dont know if you noticed my post asking this question in mc-mac side.  i got the answer to my problem and thought i'd share it here.  Check it out:

http://community.avid.com/forums/t/66969.aspx

I'm glad to hear about this option to enable frame-for-frame import.  Thanks for the tip!

However, this still does not provide for proper 3:2 insertion on import.  Avid?  Are you listening?  

yeah

does anybody have this answer? 'cus I have the same problem

everytime I import 23.976 or 24p footage, EVEN with pulldown already inserted on After Effects, Avid does the frame-repeating thing.

I must set a workflow for media imported in FCP at 1080p23.976, to work on a PC based software Avid MC 8, at 1080i59.94 or 1080i60, or even standard NTSC at 30i/29.97

does Avid have this capability?

thanks

Gabriel Parente:

everytime I import 23.976 or 24p footage, EVEN with pulldown already inserted on After Effects, Avid does the frame-repeating thing.

Just checking / clarifying:

It seems strange that you would get repeated frames after importing something that had 3:2 inserted by AfterEffects.  First check: in Quicktime Player, using Window > Show Movie Inspector, what do you see for the FPS value for the files you're importing?

Also, if you step through any 3:2 pulldown material frame-by-frame in the Composer window, you will see what appears to be a repeated frame.  It's only by stepping through field-by-field that you would reveal that the 3:2 cadence is correct -- or not.  If you step field-by-field, you should get 3 repeated fields, then 2, then 3, then 2, etc. On the other hand, when the AVID does an import incorrectly from a 24fps Quicktime, as I have previously described, you would see 2, 2, 2, and 4 repeated fields (10 total fields = 5 video frames = 4 film frames, in either case).

Does this help?

hmmmm!

thanks! but I don't know how to step field-by-field in AVID, could you help me please?

thanks a lot

The only way I have found to do this is to assign a command to the keyboard or to one of the buttons on the Composer window:

The Command Palette has two command icons that can be dragged to your current Keyboard (Settings > Keyboard) that look just like the "Step Forward 1 Frame" and "Step Backward 1 Frame" icons, but with a dashed vertical line, if mempry serves (I'm not in front of my Avid right now).  You can use these two "Step 1 Field" icons directly from the Palette, or assign them as mentioned.  The Help file should point you in the right direction if you're not already familiar with these procedures.

Let me know how it turns out.

Thanks Deka!

It really solved my problem! Now I know whether the pulldown insertion is correct or not, on Avid. I also discovered a way to do it within Avid, using the Timewarp effect.

thanks a lot