Latest post Mon, Sep 16 2019 9:45 PM by Marc Cebrian. 21 replies.
Page 1 of 2 (22 items) 1 2 Next >
Sort Posts: Previous Next
  • Sat, Sep 7 2019 4:07 PM

    • Rihafilm
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Mon, Jul 19 2010
    • Posts 70
    • Points 955

    [BUG] FrameFlex Quality Issues with MC 2018.12.7 - 2019.8

    Has anyone else experienced FrameFlex quality issues with the lastest MC 2019 releases?
    FrameFlex has never produced stellar results downscaling UHD to HD, but with the recent versions it looks even worse than ever before. In addition to the downscaled image looking soft and mushy there's also a lot of horizontal line flickering going on. We now have to move our project over to Resolve to finish it.

    Avid really needs to work on FrameFlex. A high-end video editing software shouldn't have problems with the most basic image manipulation like scale, translation and rotation. 

    __________________________________________

    A little update on this issue:

    Avid Customer Care was able to reproduce this bug and has confirmed that all Media Composer versions from 2018.12.7 to 2019.8 on Windows 10 are affected. It seems to work fine on Mac, though.
    The latest confirmed version without the bug is 2018.12.3. 

    So if you are running a Media Composer version from 2018.12.7 to 2019.8 on Windows 10 and plan to finish a project that uses a lot of frameflexed shots anytime soon you should consider rolling back to 2018.12.3.
    Or just export an AAF and finish the project in Resolve (much better downscaling quality than frame flex!).

    Avid Customer Care also told me that having a better frameflex was one of the top 10 feature requests voted for in Avid ACA and added "Improvements will happen in future versions."
    Let's hope that this will happen sooner than later. The quality of frame flex even without the bug leaves very much to be desired to say the least.

    MC 2018.5, DNxIO 10.9.8, Windows 10 x64 Pro, 2x Xeon E5-2630 v3, Quadro M4000 (391.58), 64GB RAM, RAIDdeluxe 6Gb SAS 32TB 16-bay RAID-6 [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Sep 8 2019 12:57 PM In reply to

    • Rihafilm
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Mon, Jul 19 2010
    • Posts 70
    • Points 955

    Re: FrameFlex Quality Issues

     

    Ok, so this is definitely a bug that needs to be investigated immediately!
    Marianna, RalphC, please have a look at this issue and forward it to your techs.

    I’m at work and playing around with Frame Flex for the last few hours (because what else would you do on a Sunday…).

    Try this with MC 2019 in a 1080 project:
    1. create a 1080 sequence and cut a UHD clip into the timeline.
    2. Open effect editor and set the Frame Flex Size from 100% to 50%. Everything should look normal.
    3. Then increment the Y Position by +1 or -1.  Suddenly the image becomes blurred. Keep incrementing by +/-1. When you reach +/-5 the image becomes sharp again.
    Try the same thing with Media Composer 2018.12 and you will see the image stays sharp, so there’s something weird going on with the 2019 versions.

    I hope that this can be fixed quickly because we have a lot of shows to finish in the next months. I really don’t want to roll back our workstations to 2018.12… Media Composer has already cost me too much time with it’s constant bugs and problems lately.

     

     

     

     

     

    MC 2018.5, DNxIO 10.9.8, Windows 10 x64 Pro, 2x Xeon E5-2630 v3, Quadro M4000 (391.58), 64GB RAM, RAIDdeluxe 6Gb SAS 32TB 16-bay RAID-6 [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Sep 8 2019 3:23 PM In reply to

    • BarkinMadd
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Nov 4 2005
    • Ontario, Canada
    • Posts 4,691
    • Points 61,300

    Re: FrameFlex Quality Issues

    I'm not sure if I've seen this. Is your footage interlaced? What is your Render > Image Interpolation setting (Advanced polyphase?). Do you have the 'frame blending' option enabled?

    Maybe some default settings changed with 2019.x?

    Hopefully someone else will have a better grip on this.

    Camera(s) PXW-X70, HDR-FX1, Hero 6 Black | MC 2019.8 | QT 7.7.9 | Continuum 2019 | Sapphire 2019 | Mocha Pro 2019 | Titler Pro 7 | Windows 10 Pro x64 ... [view my complete system specs]

    Steve

    ______________________

    www.nelliedogstudios.com

  • Sun, Sep 8 2019 3:42 PM In reply to

    • Rihafilm
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Mon, Jul 19 2010
    • Posts 70
    • Points 955

    Re: FrameFlex Quality Issues

    Footage ist progressive. I've already checked all settings but didn't notice anything strange.
    I did a clean install with new user settings when I upgraded our workstations to 2019.
    I'm pretty sure it's a bug.

    MC 2018.5, DNxIO 10.9.8, Windows 10 x64 Pro, 2x Xeon E5-2630 v3, Quadro M4000 (391.58), 64GB RAM, RAIDdeluxe 6Gb SAS 32TB 16-bay RAID-6 [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Sep 8 2019 4:07 PM In reply to

    • BarkinMadd
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Nov 4 2005
    • Ontario, Canada
    • Posts 4,691
    • Points 61,300

    Re: FrameFlex Quality Issues

    My point is that when you created new user settings you allowed MC to apply whatever defaults are now standard - perhaps they changed from the defaults that were in place for 2018.12?

    Could you look at a 2018.12 installation and check the Render settings just for fun?

    You are probably correct that it's a bug - let's hope that someone else will chime in here having read your report.

    Camera(s) PXW-X70, HDR-FX1, Hero 6 Black | MC 2019.8 | QT 7.7.9 | Continuum 2019 | Sapphire 2019 | Mocha Pro 2019 | Titler Pro 7 | Windows 10 Pro x64 ... [view my complete system specs]

    Steve

    ______________________

    www.nelliedogstudios.com

  • Sun, Sep 8 2019 6:07 PM In reply to

    • LDV20
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Nov 18 2011
    • Posts 232
    • Points 2,755

    Re: FrameFlex Quality Issues

    I just used frameflex - shot 4K and pucnhed in to 74.18 and the shot is holding sharpness in 1080p 23.976 - timeline, I  looked at it on a flanders AM210 with SDI input.  I am still on 2019.7 - have not upgraded for this reason - until I am sure there not any problems with it.   I shot mostly 4k on this project so I could manipulate the image

    Symphony 2019.7- Win 10 pro (1809), Asus PrimeZ270 with i7 7700 cpu, Quadro P2000,(431.02) 64gig memory, 500gig SSD system drive, WD 5TB,and 2TB media... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Sep 8 2019 7:10 PM In reply to

    • Rihafilm
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Mon, Jul 19 2010
    • Posts 70
    • Points 955

    Re: FrameFlex Quality Issues

    LDV20, could you please try to set the scale to 50% and then the Y position to 1.
    With these values the image get's blurry. At least at our workstations.

    @BarkinMadd, I've already checkt the settings multiple times. 

    MC 2018.5, DNxIO 10.9.8, Windows 10 x64 Pro, 2x Xeon E5-2630 v3, Quadro M4000 (391.58), 64GB RAM, RAIDdeluxe 6Gb SAS 32TB 16-bay RAID-6 [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Sep 8 2019 8:03 PM In reply to

    • LDV20
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Nov 18 2011
    • Posts 232
    • Points 2,755

    Re: FrameFlex Quality Issues

    Rihafilm:
    could you please try to set the scale to 50% and then the Y position to 1.
    With these values the image get's blurry.

    I did your test - what got blurry is the areas where my focus point was not set to.  I remeber I was interested in teh food so I set it on the clams.  In looking at the shot - the clams in plate and wine glass are sharp - accoridng to a Flanders AM210.  Other areas are soft - but I was working wide open so the DOF  was limited  - also this is was not graded (Slog2) so all is flat.  Not sure id you can see the images I attached

     

    Upload of files are not working I ;aways have issues with that

    Symphony 2019.7- Win 10 pro (1809), Asus PrimeZ270 with i7 7700 cpu, Quadro P2000,(431.02) 64gig memory, 500gig SSD system drive, WD 5TB,and 2TB media... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Sep 8 2019 8:08 PM In reply to

    • LDV20
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Nov 18 2011
    • Posts 232
    • Points 2,755

    Re: FrameFlex Quality Issues

    Symphony 2019.7- Win 10 pro (1809), Asus PrimeZ270 with i7 7700 cpu, Quadro P2000,(431.02) 64gig memory, 500gig SSD system drive, WD 5TB,and 2TB media... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Sep 8 2019 8:50 PM In reply to

    • jef
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on Sun, Feb 26 2006
    • Maryland
    • Posts 3,506
    • Points 42,240

    Re: FrameFlex Quality Issues

    Rihafilm,

    You said your footage was progressive. I do not remember saying if your sequence was P or I.  Really, that should not make difference when looking at footage in the effects tool.  But it might.  And it might make a difference in the time line.  Not sure.

    And one last question.  What codec was the source footage?

    I agree this is concerning.

    I am starting a HD 1080P project with UHD P footage (by the way, there is NO interlace in footage greater than HD.  Thank heavens!) with 2018.12.7.  I will keep an eye on this for comparison.

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." mostly 8.11.0 but playing w 2018.12.6|OS 10.14.x - iMac 2017 - home system MacPro Dual 2.8 8core... [view my complete system specs]

    _____________________________________________

    Jef Huey

    Senior Editor

    Old Stuff  http://vimeo.com/album/3037796

  • Sun, Sep 8 2019 9:18 PM In reply to

    • LDV20
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Nov 18 2011
    • Posts 232
    • Points 2,755

    Re: FrameFlex Quality Issues

    The

    jef:
    I do not remember saying if your sequence was P or I.  Really, that should not make difference when looking at footage in the effects tool. 

    My sequence is 1080P - 23.98 - source footage was Pro Res - 10 bit 4:2;2 HQ -  I rarley use Interlace now unless

    it is requested.  Now don"t forget that I am still on 2019.7 - so perhaps there is a problem with 8.   Let others chime in and we will see.  Hope all goes well for you.

    Larry

    Symphony 2019.7- Win 10 pro (1809), Asus PrimeZ270 with i7 7700 cpu, Quadro P2000,(431.02) 64gig memory, 500gig SSD system drive, WD 5TB,and 2TB media... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Sep 9 2019 10:07 AM In reply to

    • Rihafilm
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Mon, Jul 19 2010
    • Posts 70
    • Points 955

    Re: FrameFlex Quality Issues

    Jef,

    Our sequence is 1080i50. I've also tested a 1080p25 and a 1080p50 sequence. Same problem there.
    Also the codec of the source clip doesn't seem to matter. I tested DnxHR and XAVC.
    I can reproduce the problem on both of our editing suits. One is running 2019.7 the other 2019.8.

    I rolled back to 2018.12 on one computer and everything looks fine with this version.

    Just to clarify: the blurriness only occurs with certain values inside Frame Flex.
    Try the steps to reproduce the issue that I wrote in my second post.

    I'm already in contact with Avid Customer Care (Case : 03781302).
    Let's hope that they can quickly identify and fix the problem.

    MC 2018.5, DNxIO 10.9.8, Windows 10 x64 Pro, 2x Xeon E5-2630 v3, Quadro M4000 (391.58), 64GB RAM, RAIDdeluxe 6Gb SAS 32TB 16-bay RAID-6 [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Sep 12 2019 1:23 PM In reply to

    • Rihafilm
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Mon, Jul 19 2010
    • Posts 70
    • Points 955

    Re: FrameFlex Quality Issues

    A little update on this issue:

    Avid Customer Care was able to reproduce this bug and has confirmed that all Media Composer versions from 2018.12.7 to 2019.8 on Windows 10 are affected. It seems to work fine on Mac, though.
    The latest confirmed version without the bug is 2018.12.3. 

    So if you are running a Media Composer version from 2018.12.7 to 2019.8 on Windows 10 and plan to finish a project that uses a lot of frameflexed shots anytime soon you should consider rolling back to 2018.12.3.
    Or just export an AAF and finish the project in Resolve (much better downscaling quality than frame flex!).

    Avid Customer Care also told me that having a better frameflex was one of the top 10 feature requests voted for in Avid ACA and added "Improvements will happen in future versions."
    Let's hope that this will happen sooner than later. The quality of frame flex even without the bug leaves very much to be desired to say the least.

    MC 2018.5, DNxIO 10.9.8, Windows 10 x64 Pro, 2x Xeon E5-2630 v3, Quadro M4000 (391.58), 64GB RAM, RAIDdeluxe 6Gb SAS 32TB 16-bay RAID-6 [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, Sep 14 2019 11:23 AM In reply to

    • BarkinMadd
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on Fri, Nov 4 2005
    • Ontario, Canada
    • Posts 4,691
    • Points 61,300

    Re: FrameFlex Quality Issues

    This is a big deal for folks shooting in 4K and finishing @ 1080p (reframing using FrameFlex). Shouldn’t Avid put out a KB article or Tech Bulletin (or have they)?

    Camera(s) PXW-X70, HDR-FX1, Hero 6 Black | MC 2019.8 | QT 7.7.9 | Continuum 2019 | Sapphire 2019 | Mocha Pro 2019 | Titler Pro 7 | Windows 10 Pro x64 ... [view my complete system specs]

    Steve

    ______________________

    www.nelliedogstudios.com

  • Sat, Sep 14 2019 12:07 PM In reply to

    • Rihafilm
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Mon, Jul 19 2010
    • Posts 70
    • Points 955

    Re: FrameFlex Quality Issues

    I totally agree with you, BarkinMadd. This is a very big deal.
    I'm totally stunned that
    A: I was the first one to notice and report the problem (we are only a small company with 2 Avid seats)
    B: that no one seems to care that much
    To me this is the biggest Media Composer bug in a long time and definitely needs more attention.

    MC 2018.5, DNxIO 10.9.8, Windows 10 x64 Pro, 2x Xeon E5-2630 v3, Quadro M4000 (391.58), 64GB RAM, RAIDdeluxe 6Gb SAS 32TB 16-bay RAID-6 [view my complete system specs]
Page 1 of 2 (22 items) 1 2 Next >

© Copyright 2011 Avid Technology, Inc.  Terms of Use |  Privacy Policy |  Site Map |  Find a Reseller