Latest post Sun, Jan 13 2019 3:10 PM by nigelad. 6 replies.
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  • Thu, Jan 10 2019 4:46 PM

    • nigelad
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    Frameflex v Resize

    We often work with larger raster size media than needed for mastering, using proxy media for offline and then conforming to camera originals to master at HD or 2K.

    Am I right in thinking there's no difference between using FramFlex or Resize, since both of them will be rendered from the larger raster size camera original in the conformed timeline?

    If the conform is happening as part of the grade in e.g. Resolve, I believe the software can recognise MC resize effects. Is that also true with FrameFlex? 

    Thanks for any advice.

    Nigel

    ISIS 5500, MC 18.4 & PT 18.4 on Mac OS with BMD Mini-Monitors, an UltraStudio 4K and AJA T-taps. [view my complete system specs]
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  • Thu, Jan 10 2019 5:00 PM In reply to

    Re: Frameflex v Resize

    nigelad:
    Am I right in thinking there's no difference between using FramFlex or Resize, since both of them will be rendered from the larger raster size camera original in the conformed timeline?

    That is not correct. Resize (and Blend, for that matter) is using your project frame size as the base, FrameFlex will use the source's frame size. So with 4k clip in a 1080 project, Resize adjusts the 1080 proxy, FrameFlex uses the 4k image. The results will look much better with FrameFlex. (If they were the same, why would anyone bother with FrameFlex at all?)

    If the conform is happening as part of the grade in e.g. Resolve, I believe the software can recognise MC resize effects. Is that also true with FrameFlex?

    This is correct, Resolve will work with either one. If you are using an offline/online workflow and Resolve is creating your high-res files, you can use either one, but you'll probably find Resize is easier while editing.

     

     

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  • Fri, Jan 11 2019 9:26 AM In reply to

    • nigelad
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    Re: Frameflex v Resize

    Thanks Kevin , I get it now.

    I have another question for you:

    When I transcode 4K files to HD proxies for editorial,  I tick the Frameflex  "Apply source transformations" option, and it 'bakes in' the resize to the transcodes.

    If I didn't  check that option what's the difference?

    A spatial adapter effect appears on the clip, so does this mean any change to the Frameflex resze would be a  'realtime' calculation fromthe 4K original, instead of from the HD? 

    IF that's correct then I'm saving a realtime effect and timeline resonsiveness by 'baking it in', and any potential quality loss doesn't matter since this is proxy media for offline edits. 

    Thanks

    Nigel

     

    ISIS 5500, MC 18.4 & PT 18.4 on Mac OS with BMD Mini-Monitors, an UltraStudio 4K and AJA T-taps. [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Jan 11 2019 7:39 PM In reply to

    Re: Frameflex v Resize

    As you noted, that tick box would "bake in" the spatial adapter, so your 4K footage now gets locked into your project size at the framing you created. This eliminates future use of FrameFlex for that transcoded clip (but the original can still be adjusted).

    Personally, I find very few reasons to use that. In most cases, I want to have the flexibility to adjust a shot multiple ways as needed, and will then adjust FrameFlex settings within the sequence instead of the source settings.

    Since I often work in an offline/online workflow, I care less about image quality and more about keeping the footage small enough to not hinder my editing speed. When I know I am going through Resolve, I generally use Resize/Blend because they are always real-time. I will only use FrameFlex when I will be re-importing at high resolution and MC will be making final resizing. Sometimes those FrameFlex'ed clips need to be rendered, but that's better than re-creating sizing effects in an online process.

    Make sense?

     

     

    Symphony v8.8 | OS 10.11.6 • Nitris DX • 12-core MacPro (Mid 2012) • 36 GB RAM • Facilis Terrablock 24EX [view my complete system specs]

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  • Sat, Jan 12 2019 7:08 PM In reply to

    • funckdren
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    Re: Frameflex v Resize

    Somewhat related: I'm a longtime MC user and FrameFlex sort of blew past me over the years...I've always just used Resize  because all my work is with lower resolutions anyway. Does anyone know of a good tutorial on how to use FrameFlex or some kind of user manual type document? I've always been a bit confused by it.

    For example, I'm working on a historical doc right now with a lot of footage from the 1960's. When assistants brought it in, they seem to have maintained the original size and aspect ratio and blew it up with FrameFlex, but when I match frame back to the source I lose all the FrameFlex information. Wondering if there's some way to preserve that, or basically if I'm not understanding the process somehow.

    (I've always thought FrameFlex worked the other way, scaling down 4K footage in an HD project rather than scaling up SD footage...but clearly I'm missing something.)

    Thx in advance.

    Mac Pro Westmere 12-Core 3.46GHz, Media Composer 8.6.4, Mac OS 10.11.5, 64GB RAM, Mojo DX [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Jan 13 2019 3:41 AM In reply to

    Re: Frameflex v Resize

     

    funckdren:

    I've always been a bit confused by it.

    When assistants brought it in, 

    Thx in advance.

    I am confused by Frameflex too. I can’t wait to hear the answers to your question from the expert(s).

    I believe there is some kind of interplay between Resizing say a 4x3 aspect archival clip using the Source Setting/FrameFlex Tab UI in combination with further adjusting that FrameFlex’ed clip on the timeline using Effect Editor. One doesn’t seem to override or reset the other. (Try doing a 180 Rotate in Source Settings, but correct it back to normal with Effect Editor once that clip is on the timeline. Matchframe seems to load the source clip upside-down ... the 180 Rotate version.

    Then there’s the question of when to use the Sequence Refresh tool, and also what is the Effect Editor Layout button ?

    Plus, not being able to save a FraneFlex effect icon into a bin, for repeat use... 

    So yes, I’m looking for any tips on the subject, too.

    Windows7 Pro; HP 820z, 16GB ram; Composer Nitris DX, Squeeze v8.5 Pro _____ Windows10 Pro x64 Dell XPS 8930 Special Edition Tower i7-8700 3.2 Ghz; 32GB... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Jan 13 2019 3:10 PM In reply to

    • nigelad
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    Re: Frameflex v Resize

    Yes, thanks.

    So you use resize if going to Resolve for a conform, and Frameflex if finishing in MC, but don't bake it in.

    I've have been using FrameFlex to set AR [with letterboxing] before transcodes. A bug in MC 8.6 meant that 'realtime' FrameFlex on transcoded Amira footage caused crashes. Baking Frameflex into the transcodes avoided this problem, although the letterboxing was then problematic for resizes. I guess I got in the habit of doing it this way.

    Since the bug is not present in 18.11, it makes sense not to bake in Frameflex, and use it as an option for resizes in the timeline, as you suggest. That also avoids the issue with resize and letterboxing.

    Thanks for the feedback and sharing your approach.

     

    One last question - when you say blend, is that using 3D Warp?

    Nigel

    ISIS 5500, MC 18.4 & PT 18.4 on Mac OS with BMD Mini-Monitors, an UltraStudio 4K and AJA T-taps. [view my complete system specs]
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