Latest post Tue, Dec 6 2011 1:28 AM by Phil McFarland. 12 replies.
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  • Sat, Jun 10 2006 5:57 AM

    • Evan Friedmann
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    Smartsound - odd behavior in 7.1 SP1

    Well, I'm still having odd issues with Smartsound and am looking for ideas.  Two things I am observing:

    1.  On occasion, SS doesn't play properly.  At video edits, the sound seems to be discontinuous.  Seems that it jumps back a few seconds then and plays until the next cut, then jumps back.  By placing in/out around the SS clip, delete and re-render, it usually plays properly.  Maybe one out of 4 re-renders, the faulty sound reappears.  Re-render may fix it. 

    2.  SS seems to also (on occasion) to cause the sound within a video clip to lead the video by about 1/4 to 1/2 seconds over a 1.5 minute period.  The setup is to have a 3 minute SS sound clip under some video & audio (which has people speaking).  When the sound lead is observed by watching the people speaking, stopping and restarting the timeline seems to re-synchronize the video and audio - for a while.  If the timeline is played in a non-SS region, no audio lead is seen.  That would seem to eliminate any rendering problems. 

    To ensure that the problems were not related to installation, I've done a complete reinstall of 7.0/7.1 and SP1, Audigy sound system, and ProBob.  Further, on my 7.0 SP2 partition with the identical software, clips, etc. and using the same project file, it doesn't seem to behave the faulty way.

    Differences in my 'main' partition vs. the 'editing' partition is:  The 'main' partition contains 7.1 SP1 and lots of other software.  The 'edit' partition has 7.0 SP2 and has nothing but editing software and related support utilities so it is not an identical comparison.  In the past, software (including all LE/ALE software) on both partitions has behaved identically.

    I'm a bit at a loss.  It would seem to be a problem with 7.1 SP1 but I sure would like to have some other comparisons.  I'd love to have some ideas from you pros.

    EvanF

    Core2Duo E6700 on Asus P5B Deluxe WiFi; 2G DDR2-6400; 320G working, 620G backup/library, 600G SATA Raid0; Radeon X1950Pro/512 on Dell 24, Audigy 4; Sony... [view my complete system specs]
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  • Sat, Jun 10 2006 3:08 PM In reply to

    • LewS
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    Re: Smartsound - odd behavior in 7.1 SP1

    "The 'main' partition contains 7.1 SP1 and lots of other software."

    Bad idea. Liquid should be on a clean install of XP. There is no way to guarantee that Liquid will run correctly in this situation. I have not seen any problems with SmartSound in 7.1 SP1.

    3.15GHz E8500 CPU, Intel MB w P35 chipset, 4GB memory, Pioneer DVD burner, onboard audio, nVidia Quadro FX1700 512MB , 2TB (4 x 500GB) Raid 0 on Vantec... [view my complete system specs]

    LewS

  • Sat, Jun 10 2006 3:34 PM In reply to

    • smyers63
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    Re: Smartsound - odd behavior in 7.1 SP1

    Are you listening to the sound coming from the Audigy or from the BOB?  That can make a difference.  If I play the timeline for several minutes in some cases (like when playing to tape), the audio from the sound card gets ahead of the video.  The audio from the BOB is always in sync.  This was happening with an earlier version without any QuickTracks.  I haven't made a tape since installing 7.1 SP1 but I'd guess the same thing would still happen.

    If the audio from the BOB is out of sync with the video from the BOB, then something's wrong for sure.

    Have you tried the QuickTracks update?
    Sys. 1: Sony VAIO VPCF13UFX/B, Intel Core i7-740QM (1.73GHz), 4GB RAM, Windows 7 Home Premium (64-bit), Nvidia Geforce 310M, MC 8.7 Sys. 2: Acer Aspire... [view my complete system specs]

    Scott

  • Sat, Jun 10 2006 5:20 PM In reply to

    • RogerVanDuyn
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    Re: Smartsound - odd behavior in 7.1 SP1

    I'm having the jumps at video edits too. I'm running 7.1, but not SP1 yet.  It's a bit of a nuisance. I'm still testing things out on my system. 7.1 is stable enough that I uninstalled 6.1 ,Studio, and all other Pinnacle programs. Then I cleaned the registry.  This freed up a lot of space on my C drive.  After reinstalling 7.1, everything seems fine except for glitches in Smart Sound, and that's not a show stopper. I'm going slow on downloading SP1 and the SS patch.  Right now the system is working quite well and I'm reluctant to risk messing things up.  Some of the HFX pro effects are watermarked.  Again, not a big deal. I really like 7.1. Good job Avid.
    Core 2 Duo E6300, 2 GB Ram, Radeon X1300 512 MB, Audigy 2ZS sound card, two 200 GB Sata II HDs, Pioneer DVR 710B Dual Layer DVD +/- Burner, Samsung 215... [view my complete system specs]
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  • Sat, Jun 10 2006 5:45 PM In reply to

    • Evan Friedmann
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    Re: Smartsound - odd behavior in 7.1 SP1

    LewS:

    "The 'main' partition contains 7.1 SP1 and lots of other software."

    Bad idea. Liquid should be on a clean install of XP. There is no way to guarantee that Liquid will run correctly in this situation. I have not seen any problems with SmartSound in 7.1 SP1.

    I have used the two partitions since the earliest days of LE.  To date (except for now), I have yet to see any difference between the two partitions.  Not to say that I question your wisdom Lew, it certainly is a safe practice.  I have left the simpler edit partition untouched.  But after making an image, I will update and see if the problem goes away.  I doubt it will, but . . .

    Scott, I do have the SS update and all other updates installed.  It is so odd to me that only at times will I have this problem.  Next time I see it, I will make an AVI of that section and see if it exhibits the same problems.  The sound that I am hearing is from the system, not from Robert.  But the skew is so much that I couldn't blame Robert.  I have reinstalled the Bob drivers just to make sure.

    I just don't know for sure what triggers this event.  And the fact that I see TWO different oddities on the same function makes me wonder.  My system has been so absolutely solid, with never a burp, crash, or failure.  But there is always a first time. 

    Any further thots are appreciated.

    EvanF

     

    Core2Duo E6700 on Asus P5B Deluxe WiFi; 2G DDR2-6400; 320G working, 620G backup/library, 600G SATA Raid0; Radeon X1950Pro/512 on Dell 24, Audigy 4; Sony... [view my complete system specs]
    ALE 7.2 - The cutting edge!
  • Sat, Jun 10 2006 6:30 PM In reply to

    • RogerVanDuyn
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    Re: Smartsound - odd behavior in 7.1 SP1

    Evan,

    maybe it's a problem with the SS update.  I changed my mind and downloaded both SP1 and the SS update.  I installed SP1 but not the SS update.  So far, the skipping of SS at edit points has disappeared. 
    Core 2 Duo E6300, 2 GB Ram, Radeon X1300 512 MB, Audigy 2ZS sound card, two 200 GB Sata II HDs, Pioneer DVR 710B Dual Layer DVD +/- Burner, Samsung 215... [view my complete system specs]
    Roger Liquid 7.2 JVC GR-HD1
  • Sat, Jun 10 2006 7:11 PM In reply to

    • LewS
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    Re: Smartsound - odd behavior in 7.1 SP1

    Evan,

    I suspect a clean install will fix the problem. Also, do not install the SmartSound update until you are sure that SmartSound is working correctly.

    3.15GHz E8500 CPU, Intel MB w P35 chipset, 4GB memory, Pioneer DVD burner, onboard audio, nVidia Quadro FX1700 512MB , 2TB (4 x 500GB) Raid 0 on Vantec... [view my complete system specs]

    LewS

  • Sat, Jun 10 2006 11:43 PM In reply to

    • smyers63
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    Re: Smartsound - odd behavior in 7.1 SP1

    EvanF:

    Scott, I do have the SS update and all other updates installed.  It is so odd to me that only at times will I have this problem.  Next time I see it, I will make an AVI of that section and see if it exhibits the same problems.  The sound that I am hearing is from the system, not from Robert.  But the skew is so much that I couldn't blame Robert.  I have reinstalled the Bob drivers just to make sure.



    I think you missed my point about the BOB.  Since you're listening to audio through the soundcard and I know that I've had huge offsets between the video and the soundcard audio on long playbacks, I was suggesting that you listen to the BOB's audio output instead of the soundcard output.  The BOB's output should always be in sync even if the soundcard's audio is not.  That's why I said something would really be wrong if the BOB's audio was out of sync with the video (monitor both video and audio from the BOB for the best results).

    I don't know if this is standard behavior with Liquid but I've had large audio skews even without Quicktracks. (I haven't used any QuickTracks so far so I don't know what would happen then).
    Sys. 1: Sony VAIO VPCF13UFX/B, Intel Core i7-740QM (1.73GHz), 4GB RAM, Windows 7 Home Premium (64-bit), Nvidia Geforce 310M, MC 8.7 Sys. 2: Acer Aspire... [view my complete system specs]

    Scott

  • Sun, Jun 11 2006 12:50 AM In reply to

    • Evan Friedmann
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    Re: Smartsound - odd behavior in 7.1 SP1

    Scott,

    Thanks, I did get your point.  And by implication, if the resulting file output was not correct, then that would point back to ALE.  YOu very well might be correct, but I suspect that Robert could not possibly buffer that much.  I don't really know the internals of the output scheme.  I do know that on capture with 1394, I have seen large but constant delays, by large I mean fractions of a second.  Then didn't show up in the actual captured material.  I normally use Scenalizer through a non-Bob 1394.

    BTW, I did as Lew suggested and updated my edit partition with SP1 after making an image of it.  Haven't seen the problem as of yet.  But then, I rarely saw it in my 'working' partition with ALL my software junk.

    If I see any more funnies, I will check the output from Robert.  When I last saw the problem, Robert was active.  Turning it off, problem went away.  But it didn't return when Robert was turned on again.  So dunno.  Something is flakey.  Based on my confidence (which I hope is not misplaced) I rather doubt that it is in my system.  And as time goes on, there may be more reports of this as more experience is gain with SS.

    If not, I will just tuck it away in the dusty memory closet just in case something else comes up.

    Thanks for all you comments.

    EvanF

     

    Core2Duo E6700 on Asus P5B Deluxe WiFi; 2G DDR2-6400; 320G working, 620G backup/library, 600G SATA Raid0; Radeon X1950Pro/512 on Dell 24, Audigy 4; Sony... [view my complete system specs]
    ALE 7.2 - The cutting edge!
  • Sun, Jun 11 2006 1:13 AM In reply to

    • smyers63
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    Re: Smartsound - odd behavior in 7.1 SP1

    EvanF:

    Scott,

    Thanks, I did get your point.  And by implication, if the resulting file output was not correct, then that would point back to ALE. 

    But I'm not talking about a file.  I'm talking about listening to the audio output from the BOB while playing the timeline - instead of listening to the "internal" audio going to the soundcard from Liquid.  I took from your posts that you're seeing the sync problem while playing the timeline.  Maybe I misunderstood you but what you wrote in your first post is exactly what I've seen Liquid do and listening to the BOB's audio instead of the audio "internally" sent from Liquid to the soundcard fixed those symptoms.

    What I'm suggesting is to plug the BOB's L/R or optical audio into the line in or optical in on your soundcard.  Play the timeline.  If the audio is out of sync then, something's definitely wrong.

    You'll probably need to change the audio mapping to cut off the soundcard's internal input from Liquid when you do this.  You'll also maybe need to enable or change the level on the soundcard line input with its voume control/mixer in Windows.

    As I said before, I've seen the "internal" audio get a long way ahead of the video without any other audio tracks, QuickTracks or otherwise.  When I say a long way, I mean from 1/2s to 2s or more for long playbacks.  The audio leads the video from what I've seen, just as you said.

    I'm suggesting to rule out whatever it isn't.  It may not have anything to do with QuickTracks, really.  Knowing that Liquid does this when listening to the "internal" connection, I think it is a good idea to rule that out by listening to the BOB output.
    Sys. 1: Sony VAIO VPCF13UFX/B, Intel Core i7-740QM (1.73GHz), 4GB RAM, Windows 7 Home Premium (64-bit), Nvidia Geforce 310M, MC 8.7 Sys. 2: Acer Aspire... [view my complete system specs]

    Scott

  • Sun, Jun 11 2006 5:15 AM In reply to

    • Evan Friedmann
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    Re: Smartsound - odd behavior in 7.1 SP1

    Scott, I know you meant the audio output from the Bob.  I was just thinking of going even one step beyond.

    Anyway, as I was working on a golf segment, I noticed that the sound of the hit was now substantially advanced and this was in an area with no SmartSound.  It seemed to lead about half the time I played thru it.  Sound like digital uncertainty to me.  So I popped out the headphones and took a listen.  And, sure enuf, Bob was accurate and the system speakers were not.  Just like you said.  So I figured that it must be my sound system (new Audigy 4) which turns out was a mistake since it didn't solve what I had intended.  But anyways, I measured the advance.  2 frames.  So I altered the latency (which in my way of thinking should mean an audio DELAY) and reduced it from the default of 50 ms. to 20 ms.  Now speakers sound as accurate as the Bob output.

    So thanks for the idea.  I haven't seen the SmartSound problem for a time.  And the motorboating sound that I had heard is now not present after a complete reinstall.

    The edit partition (with only edit stuff) seems quite solid and, with the little editing I have done today, seems quite solid.  So one more notch for Lew.  But now, it seems that both partitions are now working quite well.

    Thanks so much for you time and ideas.

    EvanF

     

    Core2Duo E6700 on Asus P5B Deluxe WiFi; 2G DDR2-6400; 320G working, 620G backup/library, 600G SATA Raid0; Radeon X1950Pro/512 on Dell 24, Audigy 4; Sony... [view my complete system specs]
    ALE 7.2 - The cutting edge!
  • Sun, Jun 11 2006 5:48 AM In reply to

    • smyers63
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    Re: Smartsound - odd behavior in 7.1 SP1

    OK.  I just wanted to be sure we were communicating clearly.

    Yes, I would have assumed that my soundcard would lag behind Liquid but was surprised to find that within 30 minutes of continuous playback, the sound was ahead of the video.  I found this out only when I made my first tape from Liquid.  Until that point, I had only made DVDs or exported files.  When I first noticed this during recording the first tape, I very nearly stopped everything but I didn't panic.  I saw that the VU meters on the VCR were in sync with the video, so I left things alone.  When I checked the tape, it was fine for the whole 7-1/2 hours.

    My best guess is that the BOB and the soundcard are using different clock sources that are not in phase.  I don't know this for sure but it would explain this behavior.  So now I only monitor audio from the BOB if I want to be sure about what's there.  For general editing, I can monitor the soundcard audio.  For short playback runs, this isn't a problem.

    I'm glad you found a way to get better results.  I'll remember that whenever I switch soundcards.  Right now, I'm not using an ASIO-compliant card so I can't adjust the latency.

    Your card and my card seem to do the same thing and they're not the same type.  I think that points to Liquid being the source of the sync problem.  At least we know how to sidestep it.


    Sys. 1: Sony VAIO VPCF13UFX/B, Intel Core i7-740QM (1.73GHz), 4GB RAM, Windows 7 Home Premium (64-bit), Nvidia Geforce 310M, MC 8.7 Sys. 2: Acer Aspire... [view my complete system specs]

    Scott

  • Tue, Dec 6 2011 1:28 AM In reply to

    MC v6.0 video doesn't play

    Hi All,

    There is another thread on this problem. "MC 6 hangs when I try to "play"". Today I can't get it to play. I used the Capture trick and the change Video Quality trick, nether one works! THIS IS A REAL SHOW STOPPER! I have a cert system so I do not think it is the Video card. I edited all day yesterday with no problem (after I got it working with the Video Quality trick). Today no go. Help!

    Phil

    HP z820 Workstation Xeon E5-2630 @ 2.6ghz 2x 6 Core cpu Memory: 32g o/s Win 7 Pro 4 x 3T sata 7200 rpm Raid 10 Media G-Raid Gen4 2tbyte Matrox... [view my complete system specs]
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