Latest post Thu, Jul 26 2018 1:21 PM by Lun. 22 replies.
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  • Sun, Jun 17 2018 7:10 PM In reply to

    • Lun
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    Re: 4K workflow with different frame rates footage

    I just want to add one thing:

    I made some tests starting from the beginning and trying to relink at every passage and that's what came out:

    - AMA linked 25 fps files --> changef playback rate to 24fps

    - Transcoded AMA file into proxy file --> moved into new bin

    - Put proxy file into timeline --> relink: YES

    - Changed name to proxy file and put into new timeline --> relink: YES

    - Put name changed proxy file into new timeline and manually sync with 24fps audio, created synced subclip --> relink: NO

    I believe the problem is in the sync phase. It looks like that the mix of audio and video changes the parameters of the subclip in a way that when I relink it doesn't find the Apple Pro Res files associated with the proxy file I used to sync.

     

  • Mon, Jun 18 2018 7:12 AM In reply to

    • Lun
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    Re: 4K workflow with different frame rates footage

    Yesterday I keep to do other test.

    The big problem iis with the sync.

    I remember you said :

    "I would import the audio rather than link it. When you import the audio, it may ask you to associate a frame rate with it, I would chose 24fps at this point. As you have said, importing the audio will make a duplicate of this media onto your media drive (within Avid MediaFiles > MXF). You will then have to manually sync this audio to the video in the Avid project which will create subclips. I doubt that you will be able to autosync as the timecodes probably won't match now that you have speed changes to 24fps."

    This is why I can't link the audio.

    The big problem is in the manual sync : The clips at 25fps --> playback at 24fps in the source setting before to put them in the timeline and synced with the audio converted at 24fps, tray to sync and they are impossible to sync because they contrast with the audio reference of camera B. 

    Also when you sync in the timeline it create a sequence, that sequence I right click and choosed autosync, in this way create a subclip. Is it the right way to manual sync in the timeline? Unfortunately I din't often and I don't know other ways to do it to create a subclips. Should I live everything in that bin or each clip autosynced  should be in different bins?

    This is very important:

    When I put the subclips in the new sequence to edit, they are again no synced and the yare different reformat from the original AMA.

    You said also:

    "Importing the audio should be a 'one-time' operation as you can work with your audio at finishing quality, so no need to coform it later down the line. Just make sure that you import it at 48k and with a bit depth that matches the source file (either 16 or 24 bit). If your workflow involves exporting an AAF (for an external dub), you should export this before you start the conform process."

    What it means you should export this before you start the conform process? Do you mean before to relink?

    I tryied and even swiching off the audio and export only the video it doesn't relink the subclips.

    I delete the old project now and started again:

    This time I Custom the project setting at  2:35.1 resolution, how it was framed. Is it  that correct?

    Before I started the avid project I renamed only the audio folder from the hard disk project, it that ok? I did it before starting Avid?  Or rename the audio files should be only in the Avid project?

    In the Avid project can I  only rename AMA video files before transcoding to proxy?

    This are the big issued at the moment:

    -The project setting

    -Renames files

    -reformat the files and back a the same reformat

    -Sync manual issue

    -relink subclips even only the video subclips.

    Thanks in advance again, you are the only person help me at the moment.

     

     

     

     

     

  • Mon, Jun 18 2018 9:19 AM In reply to

    • Obscure
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    Re: 4K workflow with different frame rates footage



    Okay, there are a lot of questions here! Lets start with the whole aspect ratio and mask thing. I am assuming that all of your footage is shot full frame 16x9 (or 17:9 for the 4096 x2160 material) and that there is no mask pre-baked into this. If I were you, I would make a generic 1080p24 project.

    The only place that we would conventionally apply a mask is either on the timeline as a filler effect on the top layer, or in our output monitor. No need to play around with frame flex etc. As you have said there is no standard 2.35.1 mask in the effects palette. If you want to make a 2.35.1 mask, then you can create on yourself. Go to in the effects palette, goto Image > Mask. Drop this mask onto your timeline. Step into the effect editor and set the scaling options to wid = 100 and hgt=76. As long as this mask is on your top track and your top track is visible, you will see this effect applied to all of your rushes.

    The other way to apply a 2.35:1 mask (and this way is 100% accurate whereas the mask effect is probably a pixel or two off and should only be used for guide), is to go to the project format tab > mask margins. Choose 2.35:1 and apply. Then, in your source and/or record monitors, you can right click > target mask > black mask.

    When it comes to syncing your rushes, if you don't have common timecode between your video and external sound (which I suspect that you don't for 24fps speed changed material), then you will need to sync manually. The first thing I would try (if you have access to version 8.10 or 2018.X), is to highlight your video and audio clips that you want to sync in your bin. Then go to Clip > Autosync and try so sync via 'Waveform Analysis.' If this works, then great. If not, you will need to sync manually by setting 'pinpoints' on both your video clip and your external audio clip. I hope you have clapperboards!

    You have asked a lot of other questions too - would you be able to let me know what you are still having problems with?

  • Mon, Jun 18 2018 11:27 AM In reply to

    • Lun
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    Re: 4K workflow with different frame rates footage

    Hi,

    First of all I am so sorry to asking you so many questions. 

    About the aspet ratio I might explain myself wrong and got you confuse, sorry about that.

    I know that effect in Image but I don't want apply any mask.

    The film it's been filmed at  full 16:9 resolution but they framed at 2:35.1 with a video monitor, to allowed me to final export it at 2048 X 871. Cinemascope looks. Is it correct to export it at this resolution?

    This is why I was thinking to set the project at the beginning at this resolution 2048 x 871 and maybe reformat to center crop each clip if they need it. Because when I link the AMA  the format is stretch, so I need to reformat.

    When you said that you would prefer setting the project at 1080p, is there any particolar reason?

     in regard my last email, after some more test my huge problem are:

    -Renames files: So far, I am not sure I did everything right. Can I rename the AMA file before transcoding? Can I rename the audio after imported? To don't have problem after in relink the video.

    I have used Avid before but I am not often working in proxy.

    -Reformat AMA and Subclips : The "center crop" from Ama files it's look ok but it's different result and make me issued in the DNxHR LB MXF proxy and in the subclips generated from the sync.

    -Sync manual issue and relink video subclip:

    I know you told me to don't relink the audio because is imported but to export it separate, before relink the proxy to AMA. Is that correct? would be that ok for the sound design?

    At the moment I cannot event relink the subclip video.

    This issue happen for all the subclips doesnt'matter the frame rate.

    So far now,  even if I sync this clip correctly manual in the timeline, the issue is after when I start editing and insert my subclip in a new timeline. They go in out of sync wih the audio camera but it's weard because the image is playback at 24. But I can still hear some echo.

    I have the latest version of avid so I will try your sync advice and let you know if it works.

    If I can see clearly on these points I might start this project.

    Thanks again, :)

     

     

  • Mon, Jun 18 2018 2:33 PM In reply to

    • Obscure
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    Re: 4K workflow with different frame rates footage

    Whenever I have worked with drama's that have scope deliveries, we have always offlined in an HD project and applied a mask. The output resolution is then dealt with on export from the grading platform.There are benefits to working this way - you can re-size and rack material up and down underneath the mask quite easily without the need for frame flex. There is also no need to reformat any material as long as it was acquired as 16:9 in the first place.

    However, what you have suggested should work as long as you center crop all of your material in your 2048x871 format project - if you are happy with this then stick with what you prefer!

    Onto your questions...

    -Renames files: So far, I am not sure I did everything right. Can I rename the AMA file before transcoding? Can I rename the audio after imported? To don't have problem after in relink the video.

    Yes, you can rename or edit the text in the 'Name' column of your bin if you want. When you come to conform your film, you will be relinking by Source File ID/Name and Start Timecode. These will not be affacted by what is in your 'Name' column. Having said that, some people prefer to make a custom column for labelling and leave the 'Name' column intact.

    -Reformat AMA and Subclips : The "center crop" from Ama files it's look ok but it's different result and make me issued in the DNxHR LB MXF proxy and in the subclips generated from the sync.

    I'm not 100% sure what the question is. Are you saying that the 'center crop' that you have applied to your master clips is not displaying correctly in your timeline? If this is the case, check that your DNxHR proxies also have 'cneter crop applied,' then try right clicking your sequence > refresh sequence > aspect ratio and reformatting options. This will ripple through the 'center crop' setting into your timeline.

    -Sync manual issue and relink video subclip:

    I know you told me to don't relink the audio because is imported but to export it separate, before relink the proxy to AMA. Is that correct? would be that ok for the sound design?

    Only your video files are proxy, as long as your Audio is 48k and the bit-depth matches the source, there is no need to relink back to AMA before you export your AAF for sound design.

    At the moment I cannot event relink the subclip video.

    This issue happen for all the subclips doesnt'matter the frame rate.

    There are two relink settings in Avid - 'media on drive' and 'selected items in all open bins.' For Subclips and Sequence, I always use the 'selected items in all open bins' option for a conform back to a 'linked' source. In order to do this, link in your source media (high-res) and highlight it. Then, right click your subclip (or sequence) and choose 'selected items in all open bins.' When you come to conform your film at the end, I would personally suggest that you conform back to the sequence rather than the sub clips - and always do this in a separate conform project so you don't end up with media linked all over the place!

    So far now,  even if I sync this clip correctly manual in the timeline, the issue is after when I start editing and insert my subclip in a new timeline. They go in out of sync wih the audio camera but it's weard because the image is playback at 24. But I can still hear some echo.

    Are you saying that your external sound is slightly out of sync with your camera audio (creating an echo), or that it drifts out of sync gradually?

     

  • Tue, Jun 19 2018 12:56 PM In reply to

    • Lun
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    • Joined on Tue, Jun 5 2018
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    Re: 4K workflow with different frame rates footage

    Hi Obscure,

    Thank you for each replies, you've been very helpfull. :)

    First I did some test and follow each steps as you as suggested and so far it's look like everything working now.

    I will let you know when I will conform the whole film for the final export.

    Replying your last question about the sync. I did each clips manually and the claps are in sync inpoint.  

    The separate audio it slightly out of sync with the camera audio creating an echo but it happened as well with the camera A.

    The sync it's look ok, it just some echo, maybe the audio camera is the problem. I have some ambient and separate mic. I was thinking to remove the audio camera. 

    Thanks again for all your help.

    x

     

     

     

  • Tue, Jun 19 2018 4:20 PM In reply to

    • Obscure
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    Re: 4K workflow with different frame rates footage

    Thats really good news!

    With the audio, I guess to could either re-sync but not include the on-camera audio (as you have suggested), or you could just mute the relevant tracks on your timeline to remove the echo.

  • Thu, Jul 26 2018 1:21 PM In reply to

    • Lun
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    • Joined on Tue, Jun 5 2018
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    Re: 4K workflow with different frame rates footage

    Hi Obscure,

    I hope this email finding you well.

    Sorry to bother you again.

    If you can help me I need just some more advice.

    Regarding the project so I asked you before some advice, I  finally finished the finaldraft. 

    I just remind you that I edit the project on Avid media composer in Proxy.

    No problem with relink it on Avid.

    Now it will be all in the  colorist and sound design hands. So I need to exported for them.

    I applied some effecs, like zoom in resize it and superimpose effect ( this one is a 3d warp opacity avid effect that make transparency). I also add some key matte titles. They are going at the beginning of the film.

    Unfortunately I have some issue and I can't close the project and discussing with the colorist, he will close the project with the sound.

    I will send it to him exactly a project copy on a spare hard drive.

    He will use a Resolve and close in resolve. 

    I need to have some advice for the export in a way he can't have any problem.

    He need to have exactly my same timeline. Key matte titles and effect.

    Right now I exported an AAF test of the timeline and imported on Resolve but it doesn't reconignise any effect that I applied.

    I know that "Resolve supports the import of opacity, resize and 3D Warp effects when importing AAF files from Media Composer or Symphony, which are converted into Pan, Tilt, Zoom, and Rotate settings in Resolve".

    How can I please sort this problem?

     

    Thanks in advance for your help.

     

     

     

     

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