Latest post Wed, May 9 2018 11:24 PM by BarkinMadd. 15 replies.
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  • Wed, May 2 2018 2:34 PM

    • BenoitM
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    No background transcoding on laptop ?

    Support bounced a recent case (occasional corrupt frames when background transcoding) because my system is no longer on the supported list - I'm OK with that verdict (although I have hard times understanding why a suboptimal system -mine was in the supported list a couple of years ago- would cause errors such as transcoding corruption vs. just [very] slow performance in some scenarios ?).

    But they also pointed me to the latest hw specs (which I overlooked as I upgraded to newer versions over the lifetime of my system) where it is stated that 6+ cores are required for Background Transcode & Render ! Looks like this requirement was added in 8.3.

    Is there any 'affordable' PC laptop out there with 6 cores ??? Or is Background Transcode/Render now supported only on desktop machines ?

    MC 2018.5 (Symphony option)/BCC 10.0.5/RED 5.6; Matrox MXO2 Mini (8.0.0); DELL Precision M4700 - Intel Core i7-3740QM 2.7 GHz - 24 GB RAM; nVidia Quadro... [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, May 4 2018 3:09 PM In reply to

    Re: No background transcoding on laptop ?

    Well my quad core i7 works well with the current 2018.4 release and handles background transcodes well.

    Obviously if I have an issue I can't go via support but then again I solve most of my own issues....

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  VET

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet.co.uk | W www.vet.co.uk |


    Media Composer V8.2 Review Background Render

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  • Fri, May 4 2018 9:06 PM In reply to

    • BenoitM
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    Re: No background transcoding on laptop ?

    Pat Horridge:
    my quad core i7 works well with the current 2018.4 release and handles background transcodes well.

    Pat, do you sometimes background render or transcode HD or UHD MP4 AVC clips, AMA linked using the Avid Generic Plug-In ? If so, never had issues ?

    My 'ageing' system (see my specs) still handles that comfortably enough, but I get occasional currupt frames (usually just in a small area of the picture -> not always very noticeable until you know what kind of defect you're looking for), about 20~40 occurrences in a 2 hours multicam timeline. I suspect the plug-in, but....

    MC 2018.5 (Symphony option)/BCC 10.0.5/RED 5.6; Matrox MXO2 Mini (8.0.0); DELL Precision M4700 - Intel Core i7-3740QM 2.7 GHz - 24 GB RAM; nVidia Quadro... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, May 5 2018 10:36 AM In reply to

    • Bruno M
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    Re: No background transcoding on laptop ?

    Since your Dell is 'almost' managing to do successful background transcoding, I would suggest maybe a fresh install of the OS might be a worthwhile test. There's so much crap that gets loaded as background services/applications when we use our laptops for everyday tasks that are going to make demands on your resources.

    If you run Windows task Manager and switch to the Performance tab, without running any programs or even touching the mouse/trackpad, you'll no doubt see spikes in things like the CPU usage. This is usually because some process is running in the background. Some of these processes you can see in the Taskbar, but many are hidden and are started through config and registry settings without your knowledge. Any large or sudden demand for CPU time could cause an interruption in your background transcoding and result in the glitches you're seeing.

    My advice would be to swap out your boot drive for a new 250GByte SSD (as this will allow you experiment without touching your main boot drive) and do a fresh install of the OS (plus any drivers and OS updates you need). Then ONLY install Media Composer (and any associated programs it needs). So no antivirus, Acrobat readers, Skype, etc. Once you've installed and activated MC, I would even shut down Avid's Application Manager and run the background transcode test again. This will tell you if your laptop can successfully handle this task without other processes strangling it's performance. You might be surprised at how snappy your laptop becomes with a fresh install!

     

    HP Z800,HP8600,HP8760WSonnetFusion RAID, Mediadock U320, Classic Nitris Mojo DXSymphony 5,6 & 8.5 JVC DTV1910 HD tube monitor, HP Dreamcolor, [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, May 5 2018 1:14 PM In reply to

    • BenoitM
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    Re: No background transcoding on laptop ?

    Thanks Bruno,

    Actually my system is a fresh OS install from a couple of months, and is dedicated to video editing and a few related things (low footprint photo editing, etc); I made sure to remove/disable all non-essential Windows 7 features & services and avoid installing 'crapware' Smile I'm familiar enough with Windows to be obsessed by Services, Task Manager, Resource Monitor, Process Explorer etc. (interestingly, this allows me to see that quite often, even while my MC 18.2 editing session is open but absolutely idle, a thread in the MC main process is eating up nearly 100% of one of the 8 logical CPU cores, without other visible activity (disk I/O, etc.) causing the fan to hum unnecessarily...).

    IMHO, a thread inside a process that's NOT time-critical (i.e. not related to some uninterruptible flow of data, interrupts etc.), like transcoding/rendering, should be smart enough to NOT malfunction when the OS scheduler allocates more CPU to another process, particularly if it's a background task. But of course I have no clue how the codec/plugin/render chain is designed/coded in MC. OK I know encoding/decoding video data isn't exactly a simple thing, particularly in long-GOP encoding schemes, but there are tools out there that merrily crunch and transcode video in the background, even if the CPU is heavily used by some foreground app; I don't understand why a thread couldn't be suspended in the middle of decoding a frame as long as it doesn't have to feed e.g. a display in a timely manner.

    That said, back to your and Pat's suggestions: I'll turn off my A/V realtime protection and see how that works in my next similar project. Otherwise, well, I'll have to seriously think about renewing the HW and stop bothering people here in the forums with my 'ageing' system issues Big Smile...

    MC 2018.5 (Symphony option)/BCC 10.0.5/RED 5.6; Matrox MXO2 Mini (8.0.0); DELL Precision M4700 - Intel Core i7-3740QM 2.7 GHz - 24 GB RAM; nVidia Quadro... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sat, May 5 2018 1:58 PM In reply to

    • Bruno M
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    Re: No background transcoding on laptop ?

    BenoitM:
    should be smart enough to NOT malfunction when the OS scheduler allocates more CPU to another process, particularly if it's a background task.

    You'd think so, given that Avid has called it 'Backgound' and I'm guessing that a lot of people will be running it alongside MC. Problem is, although they can test it with the processes you'd normally find in a typical install of W7, they can't know what will happen if someone installs a badly behaved program.

    BenoitM:
    I'll turn off my A/V realtime protection and see how that works in my next similar project.

    I would definitely switch off any antivirus, which I'm guessing will possibly 'kick-in' and scan a new transcoded file as it's created.

    These sorts of problems are always the most difficult to pin down due to their infrequent nature. I've had cases where people have splurged on shiny, new computers with lots of cores, only to discover that an obscure driver or DLL that got installed with some peripheral was the cause all along.

    HP Z800,HP8600,HP8760WSonnetFusion RAID, Mediadock U320, Classic Nitris Mojo DXSymphony 5,6 & 8.5 JVC DTV1910 HD tube monitor, HP Dreamcolor, [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, May 6 2018 8:55 AM In reply to

    • aVienna
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    Re: No background transcoding on laptop ?

    Hi Benoit, can you test this please, if you see the same behaviour. I have a non certified 4 cores (8 with hypertreading) Xeon CPU and 24MB RAM (my config #2) and it shows this strange behaviour: After having rendered effects in the timeline CPU load stays at 16% *for the next 5 minutes* then drops.

    1080/25p project, some motion and CC effects, just to have something to render. I launch the project and wait till PC is idle and settle at about 3% CPU load. I render the effects in the timeline and wait till PC is idle again. CPU load stays at 16% *for the next 5 minutes*. Then it drops back to the intial 3%. It does not matter if render is done in the forground or background. I see only the CPU load is increased, and no other I/O (disk, network) is happening. Hard to understand what is happening here. Perhaps Windows 10 Pro does something with the new created files, but then I expected to see disk activities too. Same happens with 8MB RAM (which was my initial config). So it seems independent of the RAM. No Antivirus application except the the Windows 10 Pro built in Defender. Only thing I can imagine is that the new files are loaded into RAM and the CPU dedicates 10% of its activity to do some in memory analysis. However the tasks-manager says the CPU load originates from Mediacomposer (there are two different task names, one when the background redner is enganged and another for foreground). Both cause exacetly the same temporary enhanced CPU load.

    1) MC Symphony 2018.7, HP Z420: Intel Xeon E5-1650 v2, 6 cores @3.50GHz, 40GB RAM, Windows 10 Pro, Z TurboDrive 256GB as system disc, Thunderbolt 2 PCIe... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, May 6 2018 4:41 PM In reply to

    Re: No background transcoding on laptop ?

    I'm on WIndows 10 not Windows 7 and I think that gives a slight edge.

    And I only use the system for training so its only ever for demos and never heavy lifting so itrs unlikley I'd spot such an occurance. That said I haven't seen any yet.

    ACI Moderator. I'm not employed by Avid or work for them. I just do this in my spare time. Normally using the current Media Composer version on My... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  VET

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet.co.uk | W www.vet.co.uk |


    Media Composer V8.2 Review Background Render

    -

    Follow me on Twitter Pat_H_VET

  • Sun, May 6 2018 5:24 PM In reply to

    • BenoitM
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    Re: No background transcoding on laptop ?

    Hi aVienna,

    About this 16% CPU for 5 minutes:

    In your scenario, do you use AMA-linked clips, like AVCHD etc.?

    It looks indeed very similar to the issue I described earlier in the parentheses - but I will see if I can get the same result using your steps. If you dig into the AvidMediaComposer.exe or TranscodeServiceWorker.exe process using e.g. Process Explorer, I bet you'll see something similar to what I prepared in a note that waits on my desktop until I have a consistent repro scenario in order to open a case:

    "Randomly, when MC is idle, there is a thread that prevents the CPU to return to 0% utilization; the main symptom is: one of the logical CPU cores remains steadily busy at approx. xx%, without any useful activity (no I/O, no processing) (see snapshot); a secondary symptom (side effect) is that the CPU fan keeps running too fast for an otherwise idle system, making unnecessary noise.
    The offending thread can be: "MSVCR120.dll!endthreadex+0x90" or "nvopencl.dll!GetExtensionFunctionAddress+0x3f7803" or similar.
    It is not clear when this 'rogue' busy thread kicks in (or 'forgets' to go idle).
    Sometimes, there are two (or more) such threads: <snapshot comes here>

    Exiting and restarting MC solves the problem...for a while.
    Sometimes, the threads gracefully end by themselves (perhaps after some activity on the desktop outside MC, like opening a Windows Explorer instance and switching back to MC, or simply after a few minutes).
    This busy thread has been observed both inside the MC main process (AvidMediaComposer.exe) and the Background Services process (TranscodeServiceWorker.exe)

    The issue is:
    1) this 'rogue' thread is probably 'stealing' CPU cycles to other useful threads, reducing the overall MC performance and responsiveness.
    2) the CPU never gets fully idle (CPU clock remains above 100% instead of going down to about 50% just because one or two logical cores are peaking), resulting in a unnecessary power consumption (battery drains much faster on laptop) and noise from the fan."

    I don't know exactly what causes this thread to kick in (or forget to go idle) -sometimes it seems that just playing around in a project with AMA-linked MP4 files can trigger this- and have seen it eventually go idle after some time (perhaps 5 min like you) or some event (like giving the focus to another app then coming back to MC, or minimize/maximize its main window).

    Looking at the offending thread names, I may well be facing different causes with the same symptom, as one thread name suggests an OPENCL call (issue with nVidia ?) the other seems to refer to the C++ runtime libraries.

    NB: I have yet to see the same symptom on my secondary system (Win10, my primary is still Win7), but I edit only very simple projects on that one.

    MC 2018.5 (Symphony option)/BCC 10.0.5/RED 5.6; Matrox MXO2 Mini (8.0.0); DELL Precision M4700 - Intel Core i7-3740QM 2.7 GHz - 24 GB RAM; nVidia Quadro... [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, May 6 2018 8:52 PM In reply to

    • aVienna
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    Re: No background transcoding on laptop ?

    Hi Benoit,

    i use ProRes AMA-linked clips. Need to test with sytem #1 which is a certified system. On system #2 after render has finished six cores return to their load like before while two have much higher load. Overall the CPU load is then 16% and calms downs suddenly after the 5 minutes. The fact that it is so faithfully calming down after the 5 minutes makes me think this is a feature. I neeed to test with longer / shorter clips  and see if this affects the 5 minutes. BTW: after launching the render i do not touch anything, just watch task monitor. It is totaly reproducable by deleting the rendered files and render again. Cold or warm restart does not change anything. It is the render that triggers the 5 minutes increased load on two cores. Which cores are more active is random. But they are always positioned next to each other in task manager charts. I had a case logged but could not proceed due to my non-certified system #2. Will try with #1 when i have more time.

    1) MC Symphony 2018.7, HP Z420: Intel Xeon E5-1650 v2, 6 cores @3.50GHz, 40GB RAM, Windows 10 Pro, Z TurboDrive 256GB as system disc, Thunderbolt 2 PCIe... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, May 7 2018 8:51 AM In reply to

    • BenoitM
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    Re: No background transcoding on laptop ?

    Thanks aVienna

    I will try to see if I have this 5 min timeout on my side at the earliest opportunity.

    Do you have a chance to look at the name of the busy thread(s) using Process Explorer ?

    MC 2018.5 (Symphony option)/BCC 10.0.5/RED 5.6; Matrox MXO2 Mini (8.0.0); DELL Precision M4700 - Intel Core i7-3740QM 2.7 GHz - 24 GB RAM; nVidia Quadro... [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, May 7 2018 11:45 AM In reply to

    • aVienna
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    Re: No background transcoding on laptop ?

    busy threads are

    foreground effect render: AvidMediaComposer.exe
    background effect render: TranscodeServiceWorker.exe

    1) MC Symphony 2018.7, HP Z420: Intel Xeon E5-1650 v2, 6 cores @3.50GHz, 40GB RAM, Windows 10 Pro, Z TurboDrive 256GB as system disc, Thunderbolt 2 PCIe... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, May 9 2018 3:47 PM In reply to

    • BenoitM
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    Re: No background transcoding on laptop ?

    Back to the initial topic of this thread.

    I was completely wrong: after new tests, it turns out that isolated (but too frequent), random corrupt frames occur on my main system not just during background transcode/render but also during regular transcode/render and even mixdown (without prior render); it happens with AMA-linked sources clips of various res (H.264 HD from a GoPro or UHD MP4 AVC from a Panasonic consumer camcorder), and also when I force using the old QT plugin....

    I attempted a mixdown of the same sequence (project folder copied) on my seconday system (*much* less powerful, and not dedicated to video editing: more other apps and services etc.) and it turns out that I could create a clean mixdown flawlessly. So I would exclude the insufficient HW resources as the cause.

    The main differences between the systems are: Win10 Pro vs. Win7Pro on the offending system; simple Intel Iris 540 chip vs. Quadro K2000M; MC 8.9.3 vs. 2018.2. Same antivirus on both (Avid & media folders excluded).

    As said earlier, the main system is a fresh OS re-install from a few months, dedicated to MC and a handful of ancillary apps, and is carefully managed (no rogue background apps/services etc.)

    What could be the culprit ? Could it be that Win7 is now too old for getting good testing from Avid engineering, and hence, more bug-prone ? Or is it a regression bug in the Generic Plugin between 8.9.3 and 2018.2 ?

    MC 2018.5 (Symphony option)/BCC 10.0.5/RED 5.6; Matrox MXO2 Mini (8.0.0); DELL Precision M4700 - Intel Core i7-3740QM 2.7 GHz - 24 GB RAM; nVidia Quadro... [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, May 9 2018 5:18 PM In reply to

    • BarkinMadd
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    Re: No background transcoding on laptop ?

    Sounds similar to the GPU glitch bug reported several versions ago (GPU threading issue during background transcode / rendering introduced glitches). I wonder if this is another manifestation of the same issue?

    Camera(s) PXW-X70, HDR-FX1, Hero 6 Black | MC 18.7 | QT 7.7.9 | BCC 11 | Sapphire 11 | Mocha Pro 5.6 | Titler Pro 6 | Windows 10 Pro x64 | System: P6X58D... [view my complete system specs]

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  • Wed, May 9 2018 6:47 PM In reply to

    • BenoitM
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    Re: No background transcoding on laptop ?

    Ha that sounds like a good thing to start investigating ! Any pointers to the issue description ?

    MC 2018.5 (Symphony option)/BCC 10.0.5/RED 5.6; Matrox MXO2 Mini (8.0.0); DELL Precision M4700 - Intel Core i7-3740QM 2.7 GHz - 24 GB RAM; nVidia Quadro... [view my complete system specs]
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